English turning into globish

Globan   Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:47 pm GMT
What traits do you think english should pick up to become a better global language. Please don't post if your against the idea. Please share your ideas this thread is suppose to be an exercise of the mind and not the ego.

I just searching wikipedia and her are some basic ideas.

Dropping the th sound all together and replacing it with d
like da dat dem dere. And dropping the R combinations like proof protection, to make the languge more accesible.

Using the words of Eprime getting rid of the verb to be altogether, as its a word that people have difficulty learning. Anytime you use the word is am are be was will, you create inacurate ideas. Like I'm the best,, I appear as the best seems more logical.

Adapting spelling that is more phonetic, making it much easier to learn for foren pepole.

Globish wouldn't replace English it would be another form of English. I.e. brits would speak High english, where most of the world would speak Globish.

Another aspect would be replacing many nouns with more correct worlds. I.e. China would become zong go. Brazil, Brasila

Also would include a rework of many gramatical forms. I.e.
Confortable would become conforten.

Listening to all the bad englishs around the world and you realize there is a need for it. Netspeak is replacing much of the spelling. Most cultures drop the Th either way even american ones, and staying loyal to a grammar that no one gets in pointless.

The idea wouldn't be to create a perfect language it would be to make a imperfect language easy to access.
erkws   Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:45 pm GMT
but what does a perfect imperfect language look like??
uk   Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:31 pm GMT
Globan, your talking a load of Globish now. It wont change to suit you, so just learn it how it is..!!
Steak 'n' Chips   Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:38 pm GMT
I suppose your answer may lie in examples of English creole dialects, where English has naturally evolved to become easier to speak for speakers of other languages in the absence of universal high quality instruction. In creoles, complex grammar is often reduced and diffcult sounds changed (for non-native speakers).

Watching children learn English is interesting. You may be interested to know that my 5-year old still says "D" in place of "Th".

From a phonetic point of view, I'd be interested to know what would be left of english if you removed all sounds that were difficult for speakers of another language in the world somewhere. How big is the common denominator set of phonemes that everyone in the world uses?
Drew   Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:39 pm GMT
"and staying loyal to a grammar that no one gets in pointless."

Uh...I get it. ?
Invité d'honneur   Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:10 am GMT
Steak 'n' Chips: «I'd be interested to know what would be left of english if you removed all sounds that were difficult for speakers of another language in the world somewhere. How big is the common denominator set of phonemes that everyone in the world uses?»


We can know that easily thanks to Sonja Elen Kisa. She created a language called Toki Pona which she made sure was easily pronounceable for speakers of various languages around the world.

If we Toki Pona-ed the English consonant inventory, here's what would happen:

1/ Some consonants would be merged, i.e. they would be regarded as two prononciations of the same consonant:
/s/ and /ʃ/ and /z/ — Sin, Shin and Zine would be homophones.
/b/ and /p/ — Back and Pack would both go in the same sack.
/d/ and /t/ — Do and To wouldn't be two anymore.
/g/ and /k/ — A Goat and its Coat would be on the same boat.
/l/ and /ɾ/ — We wouldn't know if there was a Light on your Right.
It would make sense, because these consonant pairs are not differentiated in all languages, or one or the other don't exist in some language. For instance, P doesn't exist in Arabic and there is no L in Japanese.

2/ Some consonant would be discarded entirely:
/f h dʒ v/ — No more Vile File, all Jacked away and Hacked away.
It makes sense to me, since V doesn't exist in Arabic and Japanese, and it isn't differentiated from B in Spanish. Also F rarely is used with a vowel other than U in Japanese and H isn't pronounced in French. Why J is forbidden is beyond me though.

So we would be left with: {p, t, k, s, m, n, l, y, w} which could equally be pronounced {b, d, g, z, m, n, r, y, w}


As for the vowels:

1/ Only five basic vowels would be kept: /a e i o u/

2/ Long vowels and short vowels would be regarded as variants of the same sounds, not two distinct vowels.

3/ Diphthongs would be forbidden.


Additionally:

1/ Syllables would have to conform to the following pattern: (C)V(N), that is, optional consonant + vowel + optional final nasal, if the syllable is initial. If the syllable is not initial, the pattern would be CV(N), that is, consonant + vowel + optional final nasal.
In other words: no consonant clusters (impossible in Japanese and Korean) and no vowel clusters (impossible in some languages I don't know).

2/ The syllables yi, wu, wo and ti, that don't exist in Korean, would be forbidden.

3/ The uppercase would never be used, as it is confusing to the speakers of languages not written in latin alphabet.





So,

Let's sum it all up:
- 9 consonants: {p, t, k, s, m, n, l, y, w} or {b, d, g, z, m, n, r, y, w}
- 5 vowels: {a e i o u}
- Consonant clusters allowed only if the first consonant is a nasal: {np, nt, nk, ns, nl, ny, nw, mp, mt, mk, ms, ml, my, mw} or {nb, nd, ng, nz, nr, ny, nw, mb, md, mg, mz, mr, my, mw}
- No vowel clusters.
- No diphthongs.
- {yi, wu, wo, ti} forbidden.
- No uppercase.


What would the words of that Toki Pona-ed English look like? Let's read the lord prayer in Toki Pona to get an idea:

♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒

mama pi mi mute o, sina lon sewi kon.
nimi sina li sewi.
ma sina o kama.
jan o pali e wile sina lon sewi kon en lon ma.
o pana e moku pi tenpo suno ni tawa mi mute.
o weka e pali ike mi. sama la mi weka e pali ike pi jan ante.
o lawa ala e mi tawa ike.
o lawa e mi tan ike.
tenpo ali la sina jo e ma e wawa e pona.
Amen.

♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒♒
English speaker   Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:21 am GMT
Why in damnation would we want to make English easy for non-natives to learn? Out of the goodness of our hearts? No! I want it to be hard for you, to give me the advantage.
666   Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:24 am GMT
English is already the easiest language I can think off aside from my mother tongue. English becoming easier would be an insult to their native speakers and since I find English to be very useful I don't want they to feel bad.
Q   Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:51 am GMT
«What traits do you think english should pick up to become a better global language»

Speak the English language like a Frenchman does. Nice mix.
Uriel   Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:39 am GMT
You don't have to get rid of TH. Pronounce it if you can, do the best you can if you cannot. We are used to a lot of variations on that sound within English as well as from foreign speaker; it's no big deal and doesn't affect comprehension that much.

Any language is going to have a sound or two that is difficult for someone somewhere. That's just the way it is. But they're part of the flavor of the language. And a lot of times it's just a matter of teaching people how to make the unfamiliar sound and making them practice. Not unlike factoring trinomials. Nobody said everything in life was going to be a breeze.

Fixing the spelling would be a relief to everyone, including native speakers who struggle for years to master the art and still screw up as adults. Getting rid of all the silent letters would be a great start. Sure, the silent E serves a purpose in indicating how to pronounce the vowel before it (sometimes), but if that isn't a fucked up way to get the job done, I don't know what is. Silent GH's on the other hand, could go tomorrow and I know I wouldn't miss them.
Globan   Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:41 pm GMT
Q Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:51 am GMT
«What traits do you think english should pick up to become a better global language»

Speak the English language like a Frenchman does. Nice mix


Lol that made me laugh I got a follow up question for use guys what languages actually use the th, aside from english the only major language that does it is arabic.

Like I said if you have no interest in the idea DON"T POST.

If english wants to be the global language it should be easier. If you have to speak it from birth it cuts down the number of other languages that can be learnt. I mean if you look at the number of hours the chinese have spent on learnging english it's crazy.

It's more democratic, for the globe. If it's gonna be the language of the globe it needs to be more flexible for people of the orient. Other there just gonna stay with mandarin.

And likeI said there would be still regular english, but it would only be spoken by about 400 million people. Instead of 4 billion as a reformed english would do.
ng   Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:02 pm GMT
You speak in turning the language easier for worldwide use; in fact, you're aiming to making it easier to Chinese people.

English is already the nearest thing to a global language, in large part because most people all over the world find it simple and easy to learn to most. If it still isn't that easy for a minority, then it's the minority who has to try harder.
Globan   Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:29 pm GMT
It's not about just making it easier for a miniorty, There are several billion people that have trouble with english. Even those that claim to speak it as a second language mangle the pointless details. There is no logic in keep old standards such as unphonetic spelling. Or sounds majority of planet(even native english speakers) that can't or shouldn't need to produce. Just because "thats the way it is". English has always been about change and it should continue to be.

Lets keep in mind this would only be for people using english as a second language. It wouldn't be any drastic change just make the language more accessible for people around the world to learn and do commerce.
???   Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:24 pm GMT
>>English becoming easier would be an insult to their native speakers and since I find English to be very useful I don't want they to feel bad.<<

This should read '...I don't want THEM to feel bad'.

What's your native language then?
Drew   Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:39 pm GMT
The problem with aiming for a truly global language is that there's no way you'd satisfy everyone. Have you ever heard Japanese? If you listen to it for a long time (antimoon style), you realize that every single syllable they speak is completely flat. They mix a series of flat syllables at different pitches to make non-flat words, and then they try to speak English and it sounds extremely foreign. How can you change English to make it easier for a Japanese person in this regard without making it harder for everyone else?