Numbers 10-15 in Old Spanish

sp   Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:51 pm GMT
What are the numerals for 10-15 in Old Spanish?
Franco   Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:12 pm GMT
diez
onze
doze
treze
catorze
quinze
sp   Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:45 pm GMT
Oh, so they are different. How about the rest of the numbers?
sp   Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:43 am GMT
Why did they change the spelling of those words?

And they're pronounced /diedz/ /ondze/ ... /kindze/ or is it /kwindze/, right?
beto   Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:38 am GMT
Yes, 'z' in Old Spanish represented the voiced alveolar affricate /dz/. The change in spelling probably reflected the change in pronunciation of 'z' from voiced alveolar affricate to voiceless interdental fricative sometime in the 16th century, where 'z' and 'c' became interchangeable until a standard was developed.
rep   Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:44 am GMT
Franco   Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:58 pm GMT
That old Spanish was phonologically more complex than modern Spanish leads me to think that during the Reconquista Spanish did suffer some sort of creolisation as it was assimilated by many Mozarabic and Arabic speakers who did not grasp well the finest details of Spanish phonology.
Baldewin   Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:38 pm GMT
How much of its former finesse has Castillian Spanish lost this day? Is it still possible to do some Restoration without putting the unity of your language at stake?
Franco   Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:59 pm GMT
I'm afraid that simplification of Spanish is still in charge. Not only phonologically but sintax is also becoming less sophisticated. For example loismo which was carefully avoided by educated people is nowadays accepted . It is interesting how dubbings of foreign films, cartoons, etc, older than ten years ago did not exhibit leismo, but nowadays it's ubiquitous in dubbings, mass media, books, etc. To people who don't know what leismo is, in few words : masculine object pronoun in Spanish is declined according to its syntactic role in the sentence. For example if it acts as direct complement "lo" is used and "le" if it is indirect complement. Well, this must be terribly difficult for some people so they simply use "le" in all circumstances.
Guesto   Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:15 am GMT
Well said Franco, leismo is terrible.