Galicians would be pseudo celt
> Scorpio Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:37 pm GMT
The majority of Celtic languages would have in fact stopped near the Alps and the Massif Central.
Was the celtic folklore of Galicia purely invented ? .. A bit like if the north africans would give a rebirth in a germanic folklore because Vandals had founded a kingdom there after the roman times...And why would they have done so ? .
Your opinion ? <
"Celt" means "military vow" in Hokkienese (se; Peh-oe-ji). Some different tribes made a "vow" in public place before all the members of tribes to link togather forming a military allies.
The Galician can be a member of roman languages and it also a member of the Celt (military vow; tribes millitary allies) as the case of Vandals allied with the Alans.
> Scorpio
I've always wondered about Celtic issues. And I realize that the Galician language is a purely Roman language.
> rep
Galician is not purely Roman language or dialect . It has Iberian substrate too (for example esquerdo -left).
reference the substratum:
Omaarsagerne Til Spiogenes Forandringer 1821
By J. H. Bresdoff (1790 - 1841)
Esquerda, as well as izquierda, is a loanword from Basque.Not really substrate.
<<Esquerda, as well as izquierda, is a loanword from Basque.Not really substrate. >>
Perhaps Basque language is descendant of Iberian?
"Iberian
From Iberian:
abóbora "pumpkin"
arroio "brook, stream"
baía "bay" (cf. Basque ibai 'river')
balsa "ferry"
barranco "ravine"
barro "mud; clay"
bezerro "1 year-old calf"
bizarro "quaint, bizarre"
cama "bed" (Vulgar Latin: cama)
carrasco "executioner"
cavaco "small woods"
esquerdo "left" (cf. Basque ezker 'left')
lousa "slate"
manteiga "butter"
mata, mato "woods"
morro "hill"
mouta, moita "bush"
sapo "toad"
sarna "scabbies"
seara "crops"
tojo "gorse"
várzea "meadow"
veiga "meadow, grassland"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_vocabulary
izquierda was adopted from Basque in the Middle Ages. Spanish word for "left" was "siniestra" (compare to Italian sinistra).
Listen up, the fact that Galician is a pure Romance language does not mean that Galicians may not have a remote, maybe vague Celtic background. I do not really know whether it's true or a myth but it's possible. Who cares anyway.
The Romance origin of Galician comes from the Romans who had a strong influence in the Iberian peninsula.
There's a parallel situation with the vague viking origin of the Russians. They are slavic but had a viking influence because of the viking invasion of Russia, so much so that the word "Russia" comes from "Rus". "Rus" is how the local inhabitants of the Russian plains called the viking invaders.
Do the Russians have to speak a Germanic/Nordic language to prove that? No, they speak a full Slavonic language, though they are in part of Viking origin.
Also, the Bulgarians have a vague central Asian origin, but they speak a Slavonic language as well.
The Franks have in part Germanic origin but the resulting country, France, is Romance speaking.
So?
Once again: the celts in Spain inhabited central Spain, not Galicia: Toletum (compare Tol- prefix to Tol-ouse), Segovia, Talavera, etc). The same goes for the Visigoths, they settled in Meseta, Tierra de Campos Góticos to be more precise.. It seems that Aryans who arrived to Spain prefered the Meseta with its characteristic harsh climate rather than the coasts. Probably because these were already heavily populated by non IE speakers: proto-ligurians, basques, iberians, tartessians, etc.
<<izquierda was adopted from Basque in the Middle Ages. Spanish word for "left" was "siniestra" (compare to Italian sinistra).>>.
Portugueses and Galicians hadn't direct contact with Basques in Middle Ages.Did they adopted word 'esquerda' from Castilian?
"Once again: the celts in Spain inhabited central Spain, not Galicia: Toletum (compare Tol- prefix to Tol-ouse), Segovia, Talavera, etc)."
Toponymy is not a creterium to define the dominant language or culture in a region. There is hundred of germanic toponyms in northern and eastern France and those regions have always been romance languages. Celtic languages were probably limited in British Isles, 2/3 southern Germany, Switzerland, Austria, 2/3 Northern France, maybe Hungary and Czech Repbublic.
<<There is hundred of germanic toponyms in northern and eastern France and those regions have always been romance languages.>>
Stop this propaganda. Present-day northern and eastern France were area of Germanic languages or dialects in early Middle ages(Alsace, part of Lorraine and France Flanders still are).
"Present-day northern and eastern France were area of Germanic languages "
Picardy, Normandy, Champagne, 3/4 of Lorraine were not germanic. And i'm not reputed for "meridionalist" propaganda...
As I remember, the border of the both linguistic groups has reached in the maximum the Somme River (with rather bilinguism), maybe the Moselle until Epinal. But the bilinguism has disapeared in High Middle Age.
/// Picardy ///- coastal part going inland almost to Amiens is definitely Flemish.
/// Champagne ///- has any map shows, it is basically a huge sparsely populated area separating Elsass & Lotheringen Germanic speakers from the French Romance speakers.
/// Eastern France ///- south of Alsace is and was never Germanic speaking.
Basically the Germanic speaking areas of France are those regions recently annexed off neighbouring states i.e. Flanders and Elsass - Lotheringen + coastal Picardy and probably areas of Franche Comte bordering Germany and Switzerland.
«"Once again: the celts in Spain inhabited central Spain, not Galicia: Toletum (compare Tol- prefix to Tol-ouse), Segovia, Talavera, etc). The same goes for the Visigoths, they settled in Meseta, Tierra de Campos Góticos to be more precise.. "»
Yes, Galician Franco (Franco was Galician). It's probably true. The coasts of Iberia are mild, and with plenty of water, specially the north and west coast. It's obvious to assume that the coasts were and are more populated than the dry "winter-frozen/summer baking hot" inner Iberian plateau.
«"It seems that Aryans who arrived to Spain prefered the Meseta with its characteristic harsh climate rather than the coasts. Probably because these were already heavily populated by non IE speakers: proto-ligurians, basques, iberians, tartessians, etc."»
The Aryans mean nothing. It's a racist non-existing concept. The Arians (with i) did exist but were from the middle-east (Iran, Afghanistan, India).
About the Celts, it seems that they mixed up with the Iberians forming the Celtiberians. Whether this is true or myth I do not know for sure. Evidence of cultural patterns of the pre-Roman peoples in Iberia are needed.
"Whether this is true or myth I do not know for sure. Evidence of cultural patterns of the pre-Roman peoples in Iberia are needed."
We will never know. Even if we find scripts, it won't mean that they were the language of the general people. In fact, we have few evidences of celticism in iberian peninsula, only some toponyms which reveal nothing more than germanic toponyms of Auvergne or Berry in France.