Why does Dutch have a reputation of being difficult?

Brandie   Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:05 pm GMT
As a native speaker of English I had absolutely no difficulty in learning Dutch.
Over the years I have learned French, Spanish, German, and Dutch. I am currently studying Italian.
Yes, I have found that Dutch speakers aren't usually willing to communicate in their language with a foreigner. A Dutchman will refuse to speak in Dutch, while a Parisian will pretend they don't speak English. Or Parisians will play the "Je ne comprends pas" game. Parisians were not very helpful when I was trying to learn French.
On a recent trip to Amsterdam and The Hague I really didn't get to speak often in Dutch. Once in Amsterdam I asked directions from a man (I knew where I was going, but I really wanted to practice spoken Dutch) and he smiled and answered me in English.
As well Dutch people told me I spoke with a 'funny accent' and then wouldn't speak Dutch to me. My accent in French was never a question, and German speakers always thought I was Swiss, but Dutch speakers noticed it immediately. I was very surprised.
Germans would always brag to me about their knowledge of accents and try to tell me what part of Switzerland I was from. They'd never take it well when I told them I was Canadian.
But the Dutch always nailed it. They never bragged. Never claimed to experts in accents. But they always knew the second I spoke. They knew I was from North America. One man said 'not American, must be Canadian'.
I found immitating a Dutch accent to be incredibly difficult. The pronunciation and grammar weren't a problem. But the accent was what troubled me.
fraz   Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:14 am GMT
<<As well Dutch people told me I spoke with a 'funny accent' and then wouldn't speak Dutch to me>>

Yet imagine if we refused to speak English to them because of their accent. If I was you I would say (in Dutch) we are in the Netherlands and here we speak Dutch. Leave the next move up to them.
fraz   Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:39 am GMT
<<I stilll think that in Rotterdam is not so much like that. It's more an inward Dutch society as compared to Amsterdam.
I'm not a native English speaker and I often encountered quite the opposite situation: Dutch people refusing to speak in English to me. >>

That's a good point. Amsterdam is an international city and in some respects, the working language is English. Lesser known Dutch cities will have a higher proportion of people who would rather speak the local language than communicate in English.

I often hear people say that everyone in the Netherlands speaks excellent English but how true is that. Based on a business trip or holiday to Amsterdam, that would be the impression you would get as you are dealing with people whose job it is to work with foreigners. But how well does your typical blue-collar worker from Gronigen cope with being questioned in English?
Baldewin   Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:49 am GMT
Most Dutch just speak enough English to make themselves understood and be able to read it. Most Dutch can participate in discussion with Anglophones, but they generally don't try to master it nor learn its culture.
IMHO   Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:20 pm GMT
<< -- There's a difference though. Scandinavians have for their culture an immense pride the Dutch sadly lack (less so in Flanders). >>

Again like the Scandinavians, they are fond of anything that is English including TV programs and movies. But the irony is they show those stuffs to be viewed by the locals dubbed in their local language(s).
IMHO   Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:25 pm GMT
<< Most Dutch just speak enough English to make themselves understood and be able to read it. Most Dutch can participate in discussion with Anglophones, but they generally don't try to master it nor learn its culture. >>

Exactly!

Just look at the Afrikaners whose language and culture are Dutch based. They share their country with English speaking people and yet they take pride with their language and culture that they even call English as "Die vyand se taal".
fraz   Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:26 pm GMT
<<Again like the Scandinavians, they are fond of anything that is English including TV programs and movies. But the irony is they show those stuffs to be viewed by the locals dubbed in their local language(s)>>

Are you sure? I've been to the cinema in Holland and Sweden and the films were always in English with subtitles in the local language.

I know that Germany dub all films into German but I've not heard of this being done in Scandanavia or The Netherlands.
IMHO   Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:40 pm GMT
<< Are you sure? I've been to the cinema in Holland and Sweden and the films were always in English with subtitles in the local language.

I know that Germany dub all films into German but I've not heard of this being done in Scandanavia or The Netherlands. >>

Oh yes, so sure about that.

Just because English is the main international language that they study first, it does not mean that it can replace their languages in very aspects of their lives.
Baldewin   Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:01 pm GMT
Dutch-speaking don't have a dubbing culture. In fact, we'd be protesting if they started doing that. Dubbed films are deemed worthless here. They quality suffers heavily from replacing the actors voice by another one.
That whole dubbing thing is more of a linguistic conservatism than anything else.
The only films and series that are dubbed are children's series (but often we show own productions here) and Disney cartoons (which are often of good quality, but over here it's easier to come over naturally).
Baldewin   Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:02 pm GMT
Also animated series for adult are never dubbed. South Park or the Simpsons sucks in any other language than English. In fact, I know someone who has a French girlfriend who can't understand why Dutch-speaking adults watch the Simpsons. Probably because the French version is cheesy.
PARISIEN   Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:20 pm GMT
<< I know someone who has a French girlfriend who can't understand why Dutch-speaking adults watch the Simpsons. Probably because the French version is cheesy. >>

- The Simpsons are immensely popular in France, due probably to the extremely creative dubbing. Compared to it the original U.S. version is flat out disappointing!
Baldewin   Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:45 pm GMT
Most Québécois disagree with you on that, PARISIEN.
AHto   Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:52 pm GMT
<<Most Québécois disagree with you on that, PARISIEN. >>
Perhaps they want to watch "The Parisiens" instead of "The Simpsons"?
PARISIEN   Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:04 pm GMT
<< Most Québécois disagree with you on that, PARISIEN. >>

-- Since the Simpsons was aired very early in Quebec a hasty and rather poor dubbing was made there, and they had then to stick to it.
Brandie   Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:00 am GMT
Fraz :

haha Excellent point! I never bothered. I didn't want to be rude.. being a guest in their country.

And yes, since there are so many people who learn English as a second language, having a foreign accent while speaking English is very much accepted. Yet if you speak almost any other language with an accent you get ridiculed.. =/