Can you ever genuinely achieve native proficiency?

GuestUser   Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:43 pm GMT
Is it possible to ever get to the point in the language where you speak the language as perfectly as a well-spoken native, never make a mistake (or at least no more frequently than the native), is able to work out what slang means simply by knowledge of the language, is able to understand a wide range of dialects and speaks with little if not any accent?

Is it possible to achieve this type of proficiency and how long does such proficiency take? Are we talking 10-20 years of quite dedicated study?

Cheers
South Korean   Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:52 pm GMT
There are people who win prestigious literature prizes in their non-maternal languages, so I guess it's not impossible.
Poughquag Pete   Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:56 pm GMT
I know a guy who came here from China about 1965, at the age of 15 or so.

Except for a very sight accent, he seems to have native-level proficiency. Apparently 45 years of total immersion wiorks pretty well.
Franco   Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:20 pm GMT
My German teacher has native-like Spanish. She is from Germany but has lived in Spain for many years.
Penetra   Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:49 am GMT
If you're Chinese or Japanese, it never happens, that's for sure, anecdotal evidence about it taking 40+ years notwithstanding.
GuestUser   Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:33 am GMT
Indeed, I've seen Chinese who have lived in the UK for years, and their English is often still poor and full of grammatical mistakes. They also often have trouble pronouncing certain words correctly, let alone speaking with the right accent.

So, as a result, I can only assume it would be equally impossible for native speakers of European languages to achieve native like proficiency in Eastern languages.

On holiday in Tunisia once, I was talking to this guy who spoke English extremely well, completely accentless, and didn't make a single mistake. His pronounciation, grammar, stress on words were pefect. After 10 minutes of speaking, I said "So where you from in the UK then?", and he replied "well actually I'm French" and said he was a translator, after he said he was French I started to pick up the occasional twang in his voice, but still 99% perfect.

From what I could gather, his English was completley a second language, he had just become very good at it. So I suppose it is possible depending on what your mother tongue is.
a demotivator   Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:43 am GMT
Everyone is capable (physically - by no means motivationally) of learning a second language to the extent of being able to communicate with little hindrance. However, to get past that point it depends on your genetics. If you find that you've been in a foreign country for 10 years and still stumble despite making a serious effort, then you should give up on the spot because your brain is not good enough. At that point you must resign yourself to your fate of a lifetime of inadequacy.
South Korean   Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:56 am GMT
There is a Persian woman who won a prestigious literature award in Japan.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%B3%E3%83%BB%E3%83%8D%E3%82%B6%E3%83%9E%E3%83%95%E3%82%A3

She was born in Tehran, studied engineering in Japan, learned Japanese expressions through TV subtitles, and is working as a novelist.
Most people who cannot speak the local language well even after decades is because they are in a career where language fluency is not that important or live inside a linguistic bubble of immigrants.