The present perfect in American English (AE).

Position   Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:18 am GMT
Can anyone tell me why the following statement does not hold for AE speakers?

"As McCawley (1971) noted long ago, the present perfect conveys

a sense of current possibility. If the Monet exhibit is still running, one utters (5a)

rather than (5b), for example.

(5) a. Have you been to the Monet exhibit?

b. Did you go to the Monet exhibit?

Once the exhibit has closed for good, however, (5a) is no longer felicitous."

When did AE speakers begin to use the past simple, instead of the present perfect, for events that are still happening?
Uriel   Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:10 pm GMT
Actually, I don't know that that statement is true. I can say EITHER a) or b) while the exhibit is still running, but only b) after it's closed.
Guest   Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:14 pm GMT
< I can say EITHER a) or b) while the exhibit is still running,>

!! Do you use AmEng? If so, what is the reasoning behind using the past simple while the exibit is still seeable?
Mxsmanic   Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:43 pm GMT
American English speakers do not use the present perfect for events that are still connected to the present. However, most Americans have a narrower perception of such connections than do other English speakers, particularly the British.

For example, the British will say "have you had breakfast this morning," but Americans will often say "did you have breakfast this morning." There is no difference in grammar; the difference is in the fact that Americans often think of the morning as being past history, whereas the British tend to see breakfast as still being part of the day, at least for a longer time than Americans do. Both groups use the past simple to describe things that they perceive to be unconnected with the present, and both groups use the present perfect to describe things that they perceive to be connected with the present. The difference is in the perception, not the grammar.

Some Americans may well use the present perfect, if that's how they perceive the action in question. Conversely, some British speakers may use the past simple, if they think of the action in question as being isolated in the past.

I tell students that both groups use the tenses identically, but that the range of times and situations that count as "connected to the present" for the purposes of the present perfect is usually much more constrained in the minds of American speakers than it is in the minds of British speakers.

As they say, a hundred hours is a long time for Americans, and a hundred years is a short time for the English.
Pos   Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:49 pm GMT
<For example, the British will say "have you had breakfast this morning," but Americans will often say "did you have breakfast this morning." There is no difference in grammar; the difference is in the fact that Americans often think of the morning as being past history, whereas the British tend to see breakfast as still being part of the day, at least for a longer time than Americans do.>

But BrEng speaker do not use the present perfect when the morning is over.

<I tell students that both groups use the tenses identically, but that the range of times and situations that count as "connected to the present" for the purposes of the present perfect is usually much more constrained in the minds of American speakers than it is in the minds of British speakers. >

And if an exhibition is still on show and the listener still has a chance to go, can an AE speaker be found using either of these?


Have you seen the Monet exhibit?

Did you see the Monet exibit?
Uriel   Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:27 pm GMT
As an American, I would say yes, they can. I would also argue with this assertion:

<<For example, the British will say "have you had breakfast this morning," but Americans will often say "did you have breakfast this morning." There is no difference in grammar; the difference is in the fact that Americans often think of the morning as being past history, whereas the British tend to see breakfast as still being part of the day, at least for a longer time than Americans do.>>

Both sound correct to me, and if we were being less general about which meal we were talking about, we would of course say "Have you eaten today?" from morning to midnight.
Rick Johnson   Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:13 pm GMT
<<"did you have breakfast this morning.">>
I would be more inclined to use this form and I'm British. That's not to say that I wouldn't use the other. It's often difficult to separate sentences by regions as most speech differs from person to person anyway. Some sentences sound particularly American like "You got it", "Can we get some pizza" (in place of "have some pizza") and the irrelevent use of "already" such as "could you stop that already?"

Some changes occur within Britain, for instance, a friend of mine was relating a story to a guy from the South...... "Rick said to me, 'Do you want a cup of coffee?'........ the guy thought it would be more usual for people in the South to say "Rick asked me if I would like a cup of coffee".
Both sentences are standard English, but sometimes our choice of sentence differs slightly.
Rick Johnson   Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:17 pm GMT
One thing that people in this area do, is use "want" when they mean "need". A great-aunt of mine moved to California after the war. Apparently her kids used to laugh at her for saying things like "that picture wants putting up".
Kirk   Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:28 pm GMT
As Uriel said, I would use either a) or b). Either one sounds perfectly fine and natural to me for use in any context.
Guest   Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:54 pm GMT
<One thing that people in this area do, is use "want" when they mean "need". A great-aunt of mine moved to California after the war. Apparently her kids used to laugh at her for saying things like "that picture wants putting up".>

Your gran knew how to speak English.
Mxsmanic   Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:19 am GMT
The important thing to remember is that, in many expressions, the choice between present perfect and past simple depends solely on what the speaker has in mind. If the speaker perceives something as being completely finished and unconnected to the present, he'll use the past simple; if he still sees some sort of connection to the present, he'll use the present perfect. Two different people talking about the exact same thing may choose to use two different tenses to describe it.

There are some cases in which one tense or the other is gramatically necessary, of course, but there are many cases in which both are acceptable. If you specify a particular time in the past, for example, you normally use the past simple ("I did it yesterday"). And if you say "I've lived here for a year," the implication is that you still live here, whereas if you say "I lived here for ayear," the implication is that you no longer live here.

Similarly, if a woman says "I've had two children," things are going well, but if she says "I had two children," it might be a good idea to change the subject.
Nick   Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:38 am GMT
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
American English speakers do not use the present perfect for events that are still connected to the present.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Any typo here?
Pos   Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:03 am GMT
<There are some cases in which one tense or the other is gramatically necessary, of course, but there are many cases in which both are acceptable. If you specify a particular time in the past, for example, you normally use the past simple ("I did it yesterday"). And if you say "I've lived here for a year," the implication is that you still live here, whereas if you say "I lived here for ayear," the implication is that you no longer live here. >

Therefore, if you say "Did you see the Monet exhibit", it is normally over, right?
Mxsmanic   Tue Jan 10, 2006 2:22 pm GMT
Yes, it's a typo; it should be present simple.

I can think of cases in which I use either tense, but they are not identical circumstances.

For example, if I'm leaving for the airport with someone to catch a morning flight, I might ask "did you eat breakfast?" whereas if I'm still at home with the person, I might ask "have you eaten breakfast?" The crucial difference here is that, in the first case, I take for granted that there will be no further opportunity to eat breakfast, and my use of the present simple communicates this, whereas in the second case, my use of the present perfect implies that there is still time to eat breakfast. And so the grammar does not change, but the perception of the activity does.
Sarah   Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:30 pm GMT
Hi every one ,please I want any one help me about present perfect because I confuse about this matter.I will appreciate that.