Having a Real Ear

What do you think of this idea?

People who don't really master a language, somehow have missed the musicality of the language. They don't sense the right word intuitively.

Languages aren't music, stupid.

Possibly there is something to that (there must be, really) ~ but it seems people with a general talent for mimicry make the best language learners.

Any perception of the musicality in a language would surely pertain to catching the phrasing and the flow, rather than to finding le mot juste.

Quintus, you don't half talk some shit !! Your thick as fuck now pipe down and don't butt in to this discussion.

musicality=prosody, intonation, etc.

I noticed that a German speaker with good skills in English still chooses the wrong word after many hours of study in English (including intensive listening).

This is the kind of error "K" would make:

I think this forum's "surroundings" offers the best chance of learning English.

The sentence is *almost* correct, but the choice of word seems odd. I have seen this over and over with this person and wonder why K's always "off" by one word.

Gordon wrote :
>>Quintus, you don't half ... discussion>>

Right you are Gordy Brown old son, you have at it now. The stage is all yours to execute your glittering star turn, love child (did Mumsie ever tell you?). Yes yes yes, we await with bated breath your scintillating repartee, Gords. Go on then, Gordikins, leap up there hup ho !

>>The sentence is *almost* correct>>


That is an oversight a native speaker might make as well, OP.

K is merely construing the noun "surroundings" as singular, just like "hustings" or "innings" ("a good innings"). There's nothing too disastrous about it.

Some of the most natural English speakers I've met have been Germans.

Ah yes, the choice of word itself is a bit off, isn't it ?-

K wrote "this forum's 'surroundings'" when a better choice might have been "the environment provided by this forum" (what was K's purpose in putting his word in inverted commas, do you think ?)

Still, it's not exactly the fall of Constantinople.

<<They don't sense the right word intuitively. >>

<<musicality=prosody, intonation, etc.

I noticed that a German speaker with good skills in English still chooses the wrong word after many hours of study in English (including intensive listening). >>



Even if we allow that prosody and intonation are "musicality", what the fuck does that have to do with choosing the wrong word?

Oh god. Such incompetence.

Musical people often sense the right note because their memory for a tune is good as a result of repeated listening. In this case, someone with plenty of listening experience (in a similar way might choose the right word without thinking.

La la la la la la la! La la la la la la la! La la la la la la!
Get the fuck off my big balls! Start to suck off my huge cock! And no mercy for the hair!

Wow, it really IS musical!

OP, it's very unlikely that the reasons people don't "master" languages can be summarised by a 2-line paragraph.

I got the idea from a language teacher. She is not an American. I throw the ball to you and see how many of you can play it well.

<<Musical people often sense the right note because their memory for a tune is good as a result of repeated listening. In this case, someone with plenty of listening experience (in a similar way might choose the right word without thinking. >>



If you said something like this, I might reluctantly agree:

"in a similar way might choose the right intonation without thinking. "


But how does the specific word chosen have to do with the musicality?
If you say "the man was robbed from his fortune" instead of "the man was robbed of his fortune", how is the second sentence different in a musical sense from the first? It's just a different word, otherwise it's pronounced pretty much the fucking same. You don't use different intonation to say "of" than you'd use to say "from".

Or what about the sentence "the programmer is writing a composer" rather than "the programmer is writing a compiler". How does that change the musicality of the sentence? How will the person know he used the wrong word for "compiler"? Will it sound like a wrong note in his head? If so, how? What note is "composer"? What note is "compiler"? I don't know about you but when I pronounce these two words the intonation and prosody is the same.

Gordon,

The teacher speaks Italian and she described (the) wrong words as sounding like wrong notes. It is my opinion (and probably not just my opinion) that students who have enough exposure to a language will remember not only the intonation, but phrases that are connected with that prosody as well.

I imagine that there are also plenty of other set phrases and smaller subsets of phrases in most languages. That is why some people who are careful listeners would choose "environment" over "surroundings".

Thank-you for your thoughts (minus your f-bombs, of course).