Are we moving back towards Communism?

Matematik   Sat May 08, 2010 10:08 pm GMT
The trend seems to be that the West is becoming increasingly more left-wing, government is getting bigger, government is beginning to dictate more and more what people can and can not say and believe (political correctness), civil liberties are being eroded, and more and more people are relying on the state for hand outs and other such social benefits. It seems to me we are moving back towards Communism, and at the momment I think the environment and apmosphere of Europe in particular is perfect for Communism. After all, political correctness is indeed a Communist concept.

I think in 20-30 years time many European countries will be fully-fledged Communist states, and will either be Atheist or have Islam as the state religion. This is ultimately what the majority of Europeans desire, right-wing politics, standing on your own two feet is demonised in Europe, Communists and other left-wing sorts are considered wonderful and the way forward. We are undoubedly moving back towards Communism.
loulou   Sun May 09, 2010 2:54 am GMT
Better Communism than Consumism of US type (financed by Chinese loans and based on exploring Mexicans).
Mallorquí   Sun May 09, 2010 2:57 am GMT
the truth.   Sun May 09, 2010 3:00 am GMT
I have never explored Mexicans.
the truth.   Sun May 09, 2010 3:04 am GMT
I was joking.
Matematik   Sun May 09, 2010 3:07 am GMT
I anally explored quite a few Mexicans.
Invité d'honneur   Sun May 09, 2010 12:25 pm GMT
<government is beginning to dictate more and more what people can and can not say and believe>

1/ This is not a left-wing vs right-wing issue, but an authoritarian vs libertarian one. Noam Chomsky is as left-wing as you can get and he defends the idea that «freedom of speech only for people you agree with is not freedom of speech» (not sure about the exact wording). He is a libertarian.

2/ In France your freedom of speech is limited in only a few areas: you can't be overtly racist or homophobic and you can't deny the holocaust. That's not a lot of limitations and they are not recent either. I don't think the law should define what you're allowed to say, but I can't agree with you that the government «is beginning to dictate more and more what people can and can not say and believe».


<civil liberties are being eroded>

See above. At least in France and the US, the people who demand less liberties and more security are right-wing.


<more and more people are relying on the state for hand outs and other such social benefits>

1/ At least in France, social benefits are being destroyed by the right-wing government. So I don't agree with you on the trend here.

2/ Also, in capitalism there is no limitations to the greed of the rich. Most of the wealth created by the workers goes to the shareholders. Speculation is favored over real wealth. Letting your money grow by itself (if you're already rich) is more rewarding than work. Screwing everyone below you is favored over fraternity. The rich always get richer and the poor, poorer. Social benefits are a meager compensation to the fundamental unfairness of the system.


<It seems to me we are moving back towards Communism, and at the momment I think the environment and apmosphere of Europe in particular is perfect for Communism>

Most of the current European governments, left-wing or right-wing, are pro-capitalist and are authoritarian in that they favor security over liberty.
If anti-capitalism means getting the contrary of what they're doing right now, I'm all for it.
I'm not communist in that I don't want a state-owned, centralized economy. I want an economy in which the workers own the firm they work in and get to share the benefits. In other word, cooperatives instead of corporations and shared wealth instead of shareholders.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xamga4_bruxelles-caracas-1-4_lifestyle

<will either be Atheist or have Islam as the state religion>

Islam as the state religion? Nobody in Europe, not even the muslims, stands out for this. And theocracy isn't communism. It's, well, theocracy.


<Communists and other left-wing sorts are considered wonderful and the way forward>

Unfortunately no, anti-capitalist ideas are completely bashed by our arms dealer-owned media (in France, big media corporations belong to Dassault, EADS, Matra, Lagardère, …). Subversion is rising, but not enough yet.
Kess   Sun May 09, 2010 2:38 pm GMT
I'm not communist in that I don't want a state-owned, centralized economy. I want an economy in which the workers own the firm they work in and get to share the benefits.

---
What you want is called socialism.
Penetra   Sun May 09, 2010 2:42 pm GMT
What about fascism? It is a good mixture of communism and capitalism and avoids both extreme visions. Private property and economic freedom would be granted but also worker's rights against greedy capitalists and scammers like Madoff.