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With God On Our Side
Hello, I have a question about Bob Dylan’s song “With God On Our Side”. ( See http://bobdylan.com/songs/withgod.html )
In the second paragraph from the bottom up, it says Jesus was betrayed by a kiss; I wonder how that is related to all the 'glorious' American history mentioned above.
It isn't.
The only non-Middle Eastern country that Jesus ever visited was England. (Or was would later become England.)
In the song Dylan himself says that his confusion is so great that nobody will be able to interpret it -- "The confusion I'm feelin' / Ain't no tongue can tell." (For one thing he shows his confusion about history by getting the Civil War and the Spanish-American War out of order. :-)
Maybe Dylan is Judas Iscariot, the kiss is the song (deceptively sweet), and Jesus is his country.
Might I ask what you mean, Adam?
Is Jesus' visiting England recorded in the Bible?
The English poet William Blake wrote
"And did those feet in ancient time Walk upon England's mountains green? And was the holy Lamb of God On England's pleasant pastures seen?" This is a reference to the non-Biblical story that Jesus spent some time in England (for instance, in Glastonbury).
>>This is a reference to the non-Biblical story that Jesus spent some time in England (for instance, in Glastonbury).<<
I don't think that this story is widely accepted as being true though, is it?I live in England, and although I'd heard the story before, I wasn't aware that many people seriously believed in it.
"The only non-Middle Eastern country that Jesus ever visited was England."
Was that before or after his around the world trip with U2.
Benjamin, I reported the story but don't vouch for it myself. Blake's lines are worth quoting as poetry if not as truth. To persons who associate Jesus with the Middle East (remote and arid) the idea that he walked "upon England's mountains green" and was seen on "England's pleasant pastures" may seem pleasantly incongruous.
A couple of books that take the idea seriously are Traditions of Glastonbury by E. Raymond Capt and Did Our Lord Visit Britain by C.C. Dobson. In searching the net I've come across some quotations from ancient sources that claim that the Christian church was founded in Britain very early, but so far nothing that comes close to justifying Dobson's claim about Jesus ("As a boy He was brought merely for a visit by Joseph of Arimathea on one of his voyages. Later as a young man He returned and settled at Glastonbury for the purpose of quiet study, prayer, and meditation. Here He erected for Himself a small house of mud and wattles.") If it were known that Jesus did that, I'd expect that the early Christian writers would have made a point of mentioning it. Gildas Sapiens (516-570) appears to attribute the founding of the English Christian church to the reign of the Roman emperor Tiberius (which overlaps with the time of Jesus himself), but Gildas speaks of it only in vague terms: "8. Meanwhile these islands [the British Isles], stiff with cold and frost, and in a distant region of the world, remote from the visible sun, received the beams of light, that is, the holy precepts of Christ, the true Sun, showing to the whole world his splendour, not only from the temporal firmament, but from the height of heaven, which surpasses every thing temporal, at the latter part, as we know, of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, by whom his religion was propagated without impediment, and death threatened to those who interfered with its professors. 9. These rays of light were received with lukewarm minds by the inhabitants, but they nevertheless took root among some of them in a greater or less degree, until the nine years' persecution of the tyrant Diocletian, when the churches throughout the whole world were overthrown...." De excidio Britanniae (On the Ruin of Britain) by Gildas Sapiens [Gildas the Wise]
Here's the original Latin:
interea glaciali figore rigenti insulae et uelut longiore terrarum secessu soli uisibili non proximae uerus ille non de firmamento solum temporali sed de summa etiam caelorum arce tempora cuncta excedente uniuerso orbi praefulgidum sui coruscum ostendens, tempore, ut scimus, summo tiberii caesaris, quo absque ullo impedimento delatoribus militum eiusdem, radios suos primum indulget, id est sua praecepta, christus. quae, licet ab incolis tepide suscepta sunt, apud quosdam tamen integre et alios minus usque ad persecutionem dioceltiani tyranni nouennem, in qua subuersae per totum mundum sunt ecclesiae.... [De excidio Britanniae -- from the edition of Theodor Mommsen, 1892] http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/arthist/vortigernquotesgil.htm
Thank you, that's very interesting.
I think I'll still put it into the same category as the story that Mary Magdalene went to France and gave birth to Jesus' baby (resulting in some people in France being descended from Jesus) for the time being though — a nice story, if unlikely to be true.
You're welcome.
As for the French legend being a "nice" story, I have some doubts about how nice it is. From God incarnate Jesus is reduced to being the ancestor of some of the French. Also, no longer would every human being be considered equally his child. Some would have the privilege of an actual physical relationship. This isn't far removed from the Greek portrayal of Zeus, who assumes the form of a swan and has sex with a favorite woman (Leda), who gives birth to Helen. Augustine denounces this sort of thing in pagan mythology. "Did not I read in thee of Jove [Zeus] the thunderer and the adulterer? both, doubtless, he could not be....These were Homer's fictions, transferring things human to the gods; would he had brought down things divine to us!" [Confessions] "nonne ego in te legi et tonantem Iovem et adulterantem? et utique non posset haec duo....fingebat haec Homerus et humana ad deos transferebat: divina mallem ad nos...." http://www.stoa.org/hippo/text1.html
Gjones2, you seem to be fond of latin language, am I wrong?
Do you know this website? It's very interesting http://ephemeris.alcuinus.net/
"'The only non-Middle Eastern country that Jesus ever visited was England.'
Was that before or after his around the world trip with U2." Good one! |