Grammatically complex languages

Franco   Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:54 pm GMT
In Spain children who still don't speak Spanish well or mumble are often said "you talk like a Portuguese".
Usuário   Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:56 pm GMT
É amava, amavam etc e não amaba amabam.

Além disto, não precisava tirar a conjugação do "nós", nós ainda usamos o "nós" de vez em quando.


do/da, dum/duma, num/numa, pelo/pela, no/na, ao/à, naquele/naquela, dele/dela, neste/nesta, daquele/daquela, nesse/nessa, nele/nela.

mais alguma? 12 formas, no mínimo.

Espanhol: 2 formas


Português 12x Espanhol 2.
Franco   Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:02 pm GMT
Don't be retard, "dum" is not a preposition, the same way "al" and "del" are not prepositions in Spanish. They are just contractions of several particles. Dum = de+um. We Spanish speak properly and don't make contractions, that's the reason why whe have fewer than the Portuguese who don't speak, just mumble .
PARISIEN   Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:05 pm GMT
>> to distinguish simple and double consonants, it's the most complicated feature in italian pronounciation. Unfortunately most foreigners don't even notice that!! <<

-- Quelle difficulté ???? Pour qui, en dehors des Ibériques et Slaves ? Toutes les grandes langues d'Europe de l'Ouest prononcent des doubles consonnes.
Franco   Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:11 pm GMT
German does not pronounce double consonants, neither English does.
mummra   Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:02 pm GMT
Sanscrit is very much an indo european language, with a similar declension system of latin and classical greek. Not too sure on the verb conjugation, but I bet it's every bit as complex as Latin and classical greek. They are, after all, related languages.
Monsieur   Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:54 pm GMT
Yes, Sanskrit, an Indo Iranian language, was fairly close to the ancient Proto-Indo European common language. I hear it's quite grammatically complex. Modern Hindi and Urdu and other north Indian languages which are descendants of it might not be as bad though. Probably easier than Chinese or Arabic.
big endian   Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:58 pm GMT
<<German does not pronounce double consonants, neither English does. >>

In Engish, you can get away without worrying about pronouncing double consonants, but there area a few cases where they are usually pronounced differently than single ones.

Compare: "a natural" with "unnatural", for example.
blanc   Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:30 pm GMT
Quelle difficulté ???? Pour qui, en dehors des Ibériques et Slaves ? Toutes les grandes langues d'Europe de l'Ouest prononcent des doubles consonnes

les français ont pas mal de problèmes à prononcer en italien les doubles consonnes connard! Le plus souvent, ils n'arrivent pas à distinguer, par exemple, camino et cammino!! Comme je l'ai dit plusieurs fois, vous ne connaissez rien de linguistique, peut-etre parlez- vous quelques bribes d'allemand et de suédois, mais cela ne suffit pas, mon vieux
VOTO   Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:10 pm GMT
por Español
olasz   Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:13 pm GMT
Portuguese is muche easier than Spanish, for example Portuguese has fewer verbal endings:ù

European portuguese is the richest. hardest and most interesting Romance language. I adore its morphology and the richness of its verb tenses and moods, not to mention personal pronouns
curious   Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:35 pm GMT
"Quanti anni hai?"—How old are you? sounds like an innocent question posed by someone just learning the Italian language. But it can be a real conversation stopper, leading to guffaws, laughter, and embarrassment, when mispronounced. That's because many beginners pronounce anni (years) as ani (anuses). Speaking Italian doesn't have to leave you tongue-tied, though.

Bus Stop? Bus Top
Glance at an Italian magazine or newspaper, and the letters appear the same. That's because English and Italian share the same alphabet. But listen closely to a native Italian, and you'll soon realize that there's a substantial difference in the sounds represented by those same alphabetic characters.

Many Italian words have double consonants. They occur in any part of the word, but never as the first or last letters. The English language also has several words with double consonants, such as bookkeeper, cattle, and tattle. In Italian, though, double consonants sound stronger than in English. English speakers typically stumble when pronouncing double consonants in Italian since there are so few instances in English that require pronouncing both consonants. Italian uses double consonants as an important part of the pronunciation of the language.

Say It With Meaning
Not sure how to pronounce double consonants in Italian? Try pronouncing it twice or holding it for an extra beat. Listen to a native Italian and asking them to pronounce word pairs such as papa/pappa until you can hear the difference. English phrases such as "bus stop" and "bad dog" approximate the sound of double consonants in Italian. Failing to make the distinction can lead to misunderstanding or worse.

Double Trouble
To avoid asking for a bowl of your father (papa) at the local trattoria instead of bread soup (pappa), be aware of these word pairs of single/double consonants whose entire meaning changes depending on whether a particular consonant is doubled:

agio—ease, comfort aggio—premium
ano—anus anno—year
casa—house cassa—crate, box
eco—echo ecco—here
gramo—miserable grammo—gram
nono—ninth nonno—grandfather
note—note notte—night
pala—shovel palla—ball
papa—father pappa—bread soup
pena—pain penna—pen
rosa—rose rossa—red
sbafo—scrounging sbaffo—smear
sera—evening serra—greenhouse
sete—thirst sette—seven

Split Up The Twins
Wondering how Italian words with consonant geminates (letter pairs) are divided into syllables? It's a split decision: Double letters always break into separate syllables. For example: addosso: ad-dos-so; ferro: fer-ro; mamma: mam-ma; soqquadro:soq-quad-ro.

Not Just Consonants
Double vowels occur infrequently in Italian, but there are a few instances. The vowels are pronounced the same as single vowels, but in these cases a longer sound should be heard: cooperare (to cooperate); zii (uncles); veemenza (vehemence); pompeii.

Besides individual Italian vocabulary words with double letters, the 1st person plurals of certain verb tenses also have double consonants:

future/futuro conditional/condizionale
andremo (we will go) andremmo (we would go)
lavoreremo (we will work) lavoreremmo (we would work)
Franco   Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:35 pm GMT
<<Compare: "a natural" with "unnatural", for example.


Yes, in Spain there are a few similar cases:

y noble vs innoble. But as you can see they are just coincidences becase un- particle ends with n like natural. Double consonants don't have phonemic value like in Italian where there are a lot of minimal pairs for each.
PARISIEN   Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:05 pm GMT
>> les français ont pas mal de problèmes à prononcer en italien les doubles consonnes connard! <<

-- Arrêtes tes âneries. Les francophones prononcent des tas de consonnes redoublées, y compris dans des cas où rien ne les indique dans la graphie (par ex. "je l'ai").

>> Le plus souvent, ils n'arrivent pas à distinguer, par exemple, camino et cammino!! <<

-- Ce ne peut être que paresse ou inattention. Ils savent très bien distinguer "pas polonais" de "pape polonais", "tu l'as" de "tue-la", "samine" de "ça me mine" etc.
Parklyfe   Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:37 pm GMT
44th comment!