Transductionem ad linguas neo-latinas

Vita est!   Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:39 am GMT
SPANISH.

Iba caminando por las calles empapadas en olvido
iba por los parques con fantasmas y con ángeles caídos
iba sin luz , iba sin sol , iba sin un sentido , iba muriéndome
iba volando sobre el mar con las alas rotas .
Hay amor , apareciste en mi vida y me curaste las heridas
hay amor , eres mi luna , eres mi sol , eres mi pan de cada día.
Apareciste con tu luz , no nunca te vallas , no no te vallas no
eres la gloria de los dos , asta la muerte
En un mundo de ilusión , yo estaba desahuciado , estaba abandonado
vivía sin sentido , pero llegaste tú .
Hay amor , tú eres mi religión
tu eres luz , tu eres mi sol
abre el corazón , abre el corazón .

Hace tanto tiempo corazón , viví en dolor y en el olvido
hay amor ,eres mi bendición , mi religión eres mi sol que cura el frío
Apareciste con tu luz , noo no , no me abandones , no nunca mi amor
gloria de los dos , tu eres sol , tu eres mi todo , todo tu eres bendición
En un mundo de ilusión , yo estaba desahuciado , estaba abandonado
vivía sin sentido , pero llegaste tú .
Hay amor , tú eres mi religión
tu eres luz , tu eres mi sol
abre el corazón , abre el corazón .
Hay amor , tú eres mi bendición
tu eres luz , tu eres mi sol
abre el corazón , abre abre el corazón .
Viviré siempre a tu lado
con tu luz
moriré estando a tu lado
eres gloria y bendición
eres tu mi bendición
eres tu mi religión
eres tu mi eternidad y (hasta) eres salvación
no tenia nada , y hoy te tengo con la gloria
con la gloria , con la gloria , amor amor amor amor amor
eres tu mi bendición , eres mi luz eres mi sol


(ITALIAN; translation.)

Continuavo a camminare per le strade inzuppate nell'oblio
andavo per i parchi con i fantasmi e con gli angeli
andavo senza luce, andava senza sole, andava senza un senso, continuava a morire continuava a volare sul mare con le ali rotte.
Hai amore, sei apparsa nella mia vita e mi hai curato le ferite
Hai amore, sei la mia luna, sei il mio sole, sei il mio pane di ogni giorno.
Sei apparsa con la tua luce, non hai barriere, non hai barriere no,
sei la gloria degli dei, asta la muerte
In un mondo di illusione, io ero condannato, ero abbandonato
vivevo senza senso ma poi sei arrivata tu.
Hay amore, tu sei la mia religione
tuo sei luce, tuo sei il mio sole
apri il cuore, apri il cuore .

Per tanto tempo cuore, ho vissuto nel dolore e nella dimenticanza
Sei la mia benedizione, la mia religione, il mio sole che cura il freddo
Sei apparsai con la tua luce, noo no, non mi abbandonare mai mio amor
gloria di noi due, tuo sei sole, tuo sei tutto, tutto, tu sei la benedizione
In un mondo di illusione, io ero condannato, ero abbandonato
vivevo senza senso ma poi sei arrivata tu.
Hay amore, tu sei la mia religione
tuo sei luce, tuo sei il mio sole
apri il cuore, apri il cuore .
Hay amore, tu sei la mia benedizione
tuo sei luce, tuo sei il mio sole
apre il cuore, apre il cuore .
Vivrò sempre al tuo fianco
con la tua luce
morrò stando al tuo fianco
sei gloria e benedizione
sei tu la mia benedizione
sei tu la mia religione
sei tu la mia eternità e la mia salvezza
non ho niente, ed oggi ti ho con la gloria
con la gloria, con la gloria, amore amore amore amore amore
sei tu la mia benedizione, sei la mia luce sei il mio sole

I say more similar and UNDERSTANDABLE then Portuguese
Philx   Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:42 pm GMT
Lol, i don't know spanish but it is almost same as italian,one note: contivuavo a camminare,iba camminando, it is best translated into italian as andavo camminando, or camminavo.
Guest   Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:02 pm GMT
seguia caminhando pelas ruas empapadas no esquecimento
seguia pelos parques com fantasmas e com anjos caídos
seguia sem luz, seguia sem sol, seguia morrendo-me
seguia voando sobre o mar com as asas partidas
ai amor, apareceste em minha vida e me curaste as feridas
ai amor, eras minha lua, eras meu sol, eras o pão de cada dia
apareceste com tua luz, não nunca te cerques, não não te cerques não
És a gloria dos dois até à morte ( by the way, vita est, its hasta in spanish, not asta, and till death in italian its translated as fino alla morte )
Em um mundo de desilusão, eu estava condenado, estava abandonado
Vivia sem sentido, mas chegaste tu
Ai amor, tu es a minha religião
Tu es a minha luz, tu es o meu sol
abre o coração, abre o coração

Há muito tempo coração, vivi em dor e no esquecimento
ai amor, es a minha benção, minha religião és o meu sol que cura o frio
apareceste com a tua luz, não não, não me abandones, não nunca meu amor
glória dos dois, tu es o sol, tu es o meu todo, todo tu es minha benção
Em um mundo de ilusão, eu estava condenado, estava abandonado
vivia sem sentido, mas chegaste tu
ai amor, tu es a minha religião
tu es a minha luz, tu es o meu sol
abre o coração, abre o coração
viverei sempre a teu lado
com a tua luz
morrerei estando a teu lado
és gloria e benção
és tu a minha benção
és tu a minha religião
és tu a minha eternidade e salvação
não tinha nada e hoje te tenho com a glória
com a glória, com a glória, amor, amor, amor, amor, amor
és tu a minha benção, és a minha luz, és o meu sol.

As u can see, i'm not so sure italian is more understandable than portuguese, at least written. And even spoken, if u are aware of some pronounciation differences in some words such as J, its understandable. for instance the word garden, in both spanish and portuguese , is Jardin and Jardim, respectively, but in Spanish u pronounce it as if it was hardin, and in portuguese u pronounce it with J, like in Portuguese
Portuguese and Spanish are more similar, because they come from the same tree, even though they grew each other to be different languages, just look at Galician.
Luis Zalot   Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:00 pm GMT
Spanish & Italian are the SAME in: Phonology/inflection/intonation and discourse.

Spanish & Portuguese are the SAME in: Syntax & Verb Conjuctioning.

Here are some EXAMPLES;

Italian;

uno-due-tre-quattro-cinque-sei-sette-otto-nove-dieci (pronunciation and similarity of that of, " Spanish & Latin."

Portuguese;

um-dois-tres-quatro-cinco-ses-sete-oito-nove-dez (Nasal inflection, little similarity to latin/spanish & italian in the INFLECTION/PHONOLOGY & INTONATION.) quatro has a almost slient 'o' ending, and sete is pronounced as 'set' and nove is pronounced as 'nov' with respect.

Spanish;

uno-dos-tres-cuatro-cinco-seis-siete-ocho-nueve-diez (pronunciation and similarity of that of, " Italian & Latin." nonetheless.)


SPANISH, ITALIAN, PORTUGUESE & LATIN:---->>>

Phonology (SPANISH)

Spanish has simplified the Vulgar Latin vocal system to only 5 open vowels (as in Classical Latin) -- a. e, i, o, u -- that are pronounced clearly and without reduction in both stressed and unstressed positions. The vowels, that are short in Classic Latin, diphthongate when stressed in Spanish

Phonology (ITALIAN)

The Italian sound system of Italian did not evolve further than that of Vulgar Latin. The vocal system consists of 7 vowels and is considered triangular (as that of Classical Latin and modern Spanish):

Phonology (PORTUGUESE)

The phonetic system of the Portuguese language is extremely rich.

In standard Portuguese it consists of 9 simple vowels, 5 nasalized vowels, 2 semivowels, 25 simple diphthongs, 4 nasalized diphthongs, 5 simple triphthongs, 4 nasalized triphthongs, 21 consonants, or a total of 75 entities. Unstressed vowels are reduced. The nasalization is indicated in the orthography by m or n following the vowel (e.g., sim yes, bem well) or by the use of a tilde (~) over the vowel (mão hand, nação nation).

The consonants have almost the same value as in other Romance languages, with some variation from region to region. The most important variations are that rr is generally alveolar in Portugal and frequently uvular (as in French) or guttural in Brazil, and that sounds corresponding to English [ch] and [dj] do not exist in Portugal but are found in Brazil represented by ti and di. Lh corresponds to Spanish ll (as pronounced in Latin America) and Italian gl. Nh corresponds to Spanish ñ and Italian / French gn. Ch and j are pronounced as in French. The dental character of the consonants d, t, n, and l is more pronounced in Portuguese than in English, because in Portuguese pronunciation the tongue tends to touch the base of the upper teeth.

CLASSICAL LATIN:

Phonology:

Latin had five simple vowels (a, e, i, o, u), that could be short or long. There were two diphthongs (au and eu) and two digraphs (ae and oe) that developed from old diphthongs. As the other old Indo-European languages Latin used the vowel gradation (ablaut). The Latin vowels could, moreover, change in dependence of the position or the type of the syllable (open or close).

Early Latin had a stress accent on the first syllable of a word, in contrast to the Latin of the republican and imperial periods, in which the accent fell on either the next or second to the last syllable of a word. (as that of spanish and italian, respectively.)

Consonants could be voiced (b, d, g) and voiceless (p, t, c or k); there were also two labiovelar (qu and gu), one sibilant (s), like castilian spanish. and two aspirated (f and h) consonants and four liquid sounds (l, m, n, r). The consonant system was marked by assimilations, dissimilations, rotacism, and metathesis.

In the late period c and g before e and i (y) were palatalized; i before vowels developed in [j] (as y in English yet) and subsequently became affricate (as j in English jet); in the same position u became first [w] and then [v]. This sounds were used in the Mediaeval pronunciation of Latin.

For further INFORMATION on this--->>>>

http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/Latin/Latin.html
Gradus   Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:14 pm GMT
The Romance evolution change & degree from Classical & vulgar latin.

Sardinian: 8%;
Italian: 12%;
Spanish: 20%;
Romanian: 23.5%;
Occitan: 25%;
Portuguese: 31%;
French: 44%.

The truth is factual and backed up by "Mario Pei" a Renowned Linguistic and Sapient in languages. Much respect to him.
Tiffany   Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:47 pm GMT
The Italian "gli" and the Spanish "ll" are not exactly the same. "Gli" represents a "lyee" sound. It does frequently become just "yee" when they are the first letters of a word*. However, when they are pronounced at any other position in a work, the "l" is clearly there. The same is not true of the Spanish "ll" which is just "yee" at any position in the sentence.

Examples:

Famiglia (It) - fa-mil-ya

Pollo (Sp) - po-yo

I don't know if I would say the phonology of the two languages are exactly the same either. Italian possesses sounds Spanish does not such as the soft g, like the English j. Spanish also possesses the "J" which is an "h" sound in English that Italian does not use.

*this may depend on the speaker, but my husband's whole family seems to just pronounce it "yee" at the beginning of a sentence. I don't listen that closely to others, so maybe a native Itlaian can enlighten us on this matter.
Tiffany   Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:50 pm GMT
work = word

"at the beginning of a sentence" = "at the beginning of a word"

Itlaian = Italian

I REALLY wish there was an edit button. I'll take registration first though.
*CarloS*   Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:13 am GMT
I was watching MTV Goal and noticed how similar Italian is to Spanish... But I also think Portugal's Portuguese IS VERY SIMILAR TO SPANISH. In fact, I understood 100% of what the portuguese said... On the other hand, the Brazilian spoke so fast I couldn't get what he said, but this doesn't mean they're different languages (as many claim).

For the Italian:
90%... (At least this last episode I understood almost everything, although some words HAD NO SIMILARITY WITH SPANISH.)

For the French:
40% - 50% (Maybe less.... Just got some words...)

For the Portuguese:
100%... (NO PROB WITH THIS ONE.)

For the Brazilian:
50%-60% (Very fast talking and very unclear vowels...)

For the Argentinian:
100% (I don't like their accent though....)

For the Spaniard:
100% (I NOTICED SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT, THE SPANISH ACCENT USED IN SPAIN IS VERY SIMILAR TO ITALIAN.)

For the English:
100% (Just because I know English.)

I MUST POINT OUT THAT THIS ARE "PARTICULAR CASES" I NOTICED YESTERDAY. THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT ALL PEOPLE FROM THE COUNTRIES I MENTIONED SPEAK THE SAME WAY. MAYBE THE NEXT EPISODE I WATCH OF MTV GOAL I WILL UNDERSTAND THE PORTUGUESE 40% AND THE FRENCH 90%, WHO KNOWS???
Tiffany   Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:32 am GMT
Question, Carlos: I've heard that Argentinian's speak Spanish with Italian intonation. Yet I've also heard that you don't like their accent. Is this equivalent to not liking the Italian accent? Because for me, I think the Spanish and Italian accent (overall) are very similar. Well, maybe you can hear a bigger difference than I can.
*CarloS*   Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:27 am GMT
I notice many elements in Argentinian Spanish:
-Spanish (from Spain)
-Italian
-Portuguese (from Brazil)

And, In my opinion they don't have Italian entonation. It's more like a Spanish entonation. I would like to hear opinions from others as well though, specially from native Spanish speakers.
CarloS   Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:44 am GMT
But, at the same time, Spain's Spanish entonation is like Italian... So it can be a bit confusing.

Argentinian has a UNIQUE ACCENT. Probably that's my only "concrete" conclusion... I don't think you need to be proficient in Spanish to notice it. It's like comparing Australian accent with the US accent. They use the "tilde" (´) where no one else uses it.

Peruvian: "¿Cómo te sientes?"
Argentinian "¿Cómo te sentís?"
greg   Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:58 am GMT
Gradus : « The Romance evolution change & degree from Classical & vulgar latin.
Sardinian: 8%;
Italian: 12%;
Spanish: 20%;
Romanian: 23.5%;
Occitan: 25%;
Portuguese: 31%;
French: 44%.
The truth is factual and backed up by "Mario Pei" a Renowned Linguistic and Sapient in languages. Much respect to him. »




Ces chiffres sont une tarte à la crème : ils reviennent périodiquement et illustrent parfaitement •••••••••L'IGNORANCE••••••••• de ceux qui les emploient sans savoir ce qu'ils signifient.


Voici le texte •••••••••INTÉGRAL••••••••• : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langues_romanes


« L'on peut donner ici les résultats d'une étude menée par M. Pei en 1949, qui a comparé le degré d'évolution de diverses langues par rapport à leur langue-mère ; pour les langues romanes les plus importantes, SI L'ON NE CONSIDÈRE •••••••••QUE LES VOYELLE TONIQUES•••••••••, l'on obtient, par rapport au latin, les coefficients d'évolution suivants :

sarde : 8 % ;
italien : 12 % ;
castillan : 20 % ;
roumain : 23,5 % ;
occitan : 25 % ;
portugais : 31 % ;
français : 44 %.

L'on voit ainsi facilement le degré variable de conservatisme des langues romanes, la plus proche du latin phonétiquement (EN NE CONSIDÉRANT •••••••••QUE LES VOYELLES TONIQUES•••••••••) étant le sarde, la plus éloignée le français. »
greg   Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:18 pm GMT
Guest :
« Sardinian: 8%;
Italian: 12%;
Spanish: 20%;
Romanian: 23.5%;
Occitan: 25%;
Portuguese: 31%;
French: 44%.
The truth is factual and backed up by "Mario Pei" a Renowned Linguistic and Sapient in languages. Much respect to him. »




Ces chiffres sont une tarte à la crème : ils reviennent périodiquement et illustrent parfaitement •••••••••L'IGNORANCE••••••••• de ceux qui les emploient sans savoir ce qu'ils signifient.


Voici le texte •••••••••INTÉGRAL••••••••• : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langues_romanes


« L'on peut donner ici les résultats d'une étude menée par M. Pei en 1949, qui a comparé le degré d'évolution de diverses langues par rapport à leur langue-mère ; pour les langues romanes les plus importantes, SI L'ON NE CONSIDÈRE •••••••••QUE LES VOYELLE TONIQUES•••••••••, l'on obtient, par rapport au latin, les coefficients d'évolution suivants :

sarde : 8 % ;
italien : 12 % ;
castillan : 20 % ;
roumain : 23,5 % ;
occitan : 25 % ;
portugais : 31 % ;
français : 44 %.

L'on voit ainsi facilement le degré variable de conservatisme des langues romanes, la plus proche du latin phonétiquement (EN NE CONSIDÉRANT •••••••••QUE LES VOYELLES TONIQUES•••••••••) étant le sarde, la plus éloignée le français. »
Aldo_b   Mon May 15, 2006 4:10 am GMT
<<And, In my opinion they don't have Italian entonation. It's more like a Spanish entonation. >>

Sincerely I don't think that Argentinians have a Spaniard entonation. My niece got married an Argentinian and I frequently hear his relatives. There is an old remainder of Italian accent due the important inmigration of Italians to Argentina.

<<But, at the same time, Spain's Spanish entonation is like Italian... >>

I think that Italian is more similar to American Spanish instead. I find Spaniard accent high-pitched, different to the Italian one.
JR   Mon May 22, 2006 10:47 pm GMT
Greg, I've noticed that you've used the same post

>>Ces chiffres sont une tarte à la crème : ils reviennent périodiquement et illustrent parfaitement •••••••••L'IGNORANCE••••••••• de ceux qui les emploient sans savoir ce qu'ils signifient....<<

every time someone comes out and shows those figures.

Do you have that on your computer somewhere, ready to copy/paste when someone does that?

Just wondering