MAYOR ands MARE homophonous?

Jason   Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:20 pm GMT
"Mayor" is a word which undergoes smoothing in RP (and in British English in general, depending on the speaker) to the best of my knowledge. My question is: Does "mayor" wind up sounding like "mare"? (a female horse). I think also, and correct me if I'm wrong here, that some American speakers, whether using a rhotic or non-rhotic pronunciation for "mayor" and "mare", still pronounce them both the same because they "smooth" mayor into one syllable (even though GAE does not smooth words like "fire"). You may, however, hear some smoothing of "fire" in a SE accent or in Black English, although in non-rhotic New Yorkese it would sound like "fiyah", clearly disyllabic with no smoothing. I am also aware that for many American speakers, "mayor" is disyllabic and does NOT sound like mayor.

So basically, my two questions here are as follows:

1) Are "mayor" and "mare" homophonous in RP or in other UK accents?
2) Are "mayor" and "mare" sometimes homophonous in GAE or in other US or CAN accents?

Thank you.
Travis   Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:40 pm GMT
At least here in southeastern Wisconsin, "mayor" and "mare" are not homophones, them being:

"mayor" : ["me:@`] or ["me:I@`]
"mare" : ["me:r\`]

As for RP or other non-North American English dialects, I really cannot say about such here myself.
Uriel   Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:40 am GMT
As far as I know, in GAE "mayor" always has two syllables and is never confused with "mare". Since the A in "mayor" is not affected by the R in the second syllable, it ends up having a different vowel sound than "mare".
Lazar   Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:28 am GMT
For me (central Massachusetts), "mayor" and "mare" are not homophonous:

"mayor" - ["meI@`]
"mare" - [mE@`]

Although I'm aware that in at least some varieties of RP, they are homophonous.
Jim   Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:20 am GMT
Homophones in Australia: [me:].
Jason   Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:15 am GMT
Actually, they are homophonous for me too. However, being that I do not live in Englnad, I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't overapplying the smoothing rule to the word "mayor". Despite my RP accent, there are occasional British prestige innovations that arise which I may not be privy to. Smoothing is not something that I've always been aware of. However, smoothing often separates "true" RP speakers from "impostors". For example, Gandolph makes use of smoothing in pronouncing the word "shire" but Frodo doesn't. He uses a near-RP pronunciation which is non-rhotic but unsmoothed. Of course, I know he's American but since he's supposed to be using an RP accent for the purposes of the movie, this is something the directors should have picked up on and corrected. I also hate those ads for "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire" in which "fire" is unsmoothed even though it's plainly obvious that the speaker is trying to pull off an RP accent. I have nothing against people adopting RP for whatever reason or purpose but if you're going to do something, for God's sake do your homework first and get it right!

Learn to play the piano first before attempting a concerto.
Lazar   Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:10 am GMT
<<I also hate those ads for "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire" in which "fire" is unsmoothed even though it's plainly obvious that the speaker is trying to pull off an RP accent. I have nothing against people adopting RP for whatever reason or purpose but if you're going to do something, for God's sake do your homework first and get it right!>>

From what I've read, I've gotten the impression that smoothing is optional, but certainly not mandatory, for RP. From my perspective as an American, if one of my compatriots were, for example, trying to do an RP accent for an add, there would be some things that I would find jarring (like demonstrating the tory-torrent merger or using a very open vowel for the /O/ phoneme), but a lack of smoothing wouldn't be among them.
Lazar   Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:12 am GMT
^ correction: "add" ---> "ad" above
Guest   Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:32 am GMT
You didn't ask, Jason, but the words are homophones in other non-NA English-speaking countries as well as the UK. If you pronounced mayor with two syllables you'd be a laughing-stock.
Strat   Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:30 am GMT
<<Re: MAYOR ands MARE homophonous?

Only in the mouths of some uneducated people otherwise 'mayor' is a two syllable word (may-er) and mare' a one syllable word (mair).>>

Big call, little man for calling Jim, Jason and speakers of RP uneducated.

Don't start with your rash and childish conclusions as usual. Before you attempt to post tripe, at least read the posts of others that contradict you or verify your supposition through the web.

If you had any intention of being objective, you would be aware at this stage that such words are typically homophonous among speakers from Commonwealth countries, and especially in RP.
Guy   Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:37 pm GMT
For me,
mayor /meI.@`/
mare /mE@`/

However, when the word mayor is followed by a name, it's pronounced /mE@`/. Does anyone else have this?
andre in usa   Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:19 pm GMT
They are homophonous in the Philadelphia area for those with a strong accent.
Jim   Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:49 pm GMT
Speaking of the mouths of some uneducated people ... don't some of them just love opening them without doing their homework ... homework so easily done these days, with counter arguments just a mouse click away ...

http://www.dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?dict=CALD&key=49399&ph=on

http://www.dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=48797&dict=CALD

... but since when do we bother listening to the kind of morons who edit such a piece of crap as the Cambridge Dictionary?
Benjamin   Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:08 pm GMT
I speak RP and they are definitely pronounced the same for me.
Benjamin   Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:10 pm GMT
Bennus, why does the fact that I speak RP render me uneducated?