global english pronunciation

Guest   Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:54 pm GMT
>> British pronunciation of LAST sounds like WestUS/Canadian pronunciation of LOST [lAst] <<

And Northern US "lost" sounds like WestUS/Canadian pronunciation of LAST [læst]
Guest   Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:56 pm GMT
Why are the words ''realise'' and ''promise'' pronounced differently ? The first one is pronounced ''Z'' and the second is pronounced ''s''. Thanks ! <<

Realize is also a possible spelling variant (and is the only generally acceptable form in North American English).

The Brits (and Australians and NZers) changed some -ize to -ise. This was just the spelling however, and did not affect the pronunciation.

"Promise" on the other hand, has only one acceptable spelling: promise.
David B   Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:17 pm GMT
'Why are the words ''realise'' and ''promise'' pronounced differently ? The first one is pronounced ''Z'' and the second is pronounced ''s''. Thanks !'

Because 'realise' comes from French 'réaliser' (intervocalic 's' pronounced as [z]) and 'promise' comes from Latin 'promissum' with [s]. The vowels are different because 'realise' has a long vowel and went through the Great Vowel shift from /i:/ to /aI/. The '-se' in promise is probably because it alternates in some words with -ce and -ss at the end of words after vowels, l, m, n, r to distinguish /s/ from /z/ of plurals, possesives, and s of verbs.

fens - fence
tens - tense
bays - base

-se after a vowel for /s/ unfortunately clashes with all those words of Old-English or French origin where intervocalic 's' is pronounced /z/

eg OE: rise, bruise, F: abuse, disease
greg   Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:33 am GMT
David B : « (...) 'promise' comes from Latin 'promissum' with [s] ».

Possible mais discutable.

« And also I praye you to remembre my sonne Betson : ffor he hath mych a doo with money now, and he trustith veraly to your ►promesse◄ : ffor Godes sake, syr, lett hym nat be forgotten. »

« Right honorable Syr, and my right Synguler good mayster, I recommaunde me unto your good maystershipe. And Syr, yff it lyke you, accordynge to myn ►promesse◄ unto your maystershipe I mette with my Lady your wyffe at Windsouer, and ffrom thens to London to my symple power I helppid to conveye hir. »

« So that bi this it is good ensaumple how in what wise no creatoure shulde make no ►promesse◄ vnto God, but suche as they wolde truli holde, for God may not be scorned nor deceiued, as he that wolde haue geue hym the foulest, and haue kepte the fairest for hym selff. »

« And þeȝe iij lordeȝ afore sayde, for lucre of Moneye, had made ►promis◄ to þe Frenschmen to haue slayne oure King and alle his worthi brethryn, by a false trayne sodenly, ere þay hadde be war. But God, of his gret grace, hylde his holy hand ouyr ham, & saued. »

« He hathe befor thys be wont to tell me non vntrowthe, and what I shall deme in thys mater I can not sey ; for me thynkyth, if more then an c li. wer ►promysed◄ on-to hym by my cosyn your husbond and yow, that ye wold not lett to geve it hym wyth-ought so wer that I or he abryggyd eny thyng of ouyr ►promess◄, whyche I wot well neyther I nor he intend to do, if I may vndyrstand that hys seying to me was trowthe and that it may be parformyd. »

« Nevere lese I trest not to here ►promese◄ in as meche as I fend hem on-trew in oþer thyngys. I conseyvyd wele be hem þat þey were wery of þat þei haden don. »

« And I haue gevyn my lady warnyng that I wyll do my lord no more servys ; but or we partyd she mad me to make hyr ►promess◄ that I shold let hyr haue knowlage or I fastonyd my-sylff in eny other servysse. And so I departyd, and sye hyr not syness nor nought purpose to doo tyll I spek wyth yow. »

« And there and then forthwith the said Sir Robert Grame, asuryng hym fully yn the promyse made unto hym bi the said Lordes, said, "Is hit nat thus as I say ?". Unto the which sayng none of all the astates afore rehersid wold, ne durst speke oone word, bot kapid silence. »

« And forthermore I, the said John Paston, vpon my said trouthe and faithe ►promytt◄ and bynd me by thies presentez to delyuere to þe said reuerend fader, before þe feste of All Sayntez next foloyng aftere þe date of these presentez, all maner of chartres, dedes, euydencez, munimentez, court rollez, rentallez, and rollez of accomptes, skrowes, writyngez, and copiez concernyng or specifiyng any of þe said maners, londes, and tenementez which I, þe said John Paston, or any persone to my vse now haué ; alway foreseen that þis ►promyss◄ extende nott to delyuerance of any chartres, dedes, euydencez, munymentez, court rollez, rentallez, rollez of accomptes, or copiez of them concernyng sooly þe maner of Castre with th'appurtenauncez, which by couenant made betwene the said reuerend fader and Ser John Paston, knyght, brother of me the said John Paston, sqwyer, most remayne with the same Ser John Paston. »

« And Amphelice, and all abbesse succedyng to her, and ther covente, warantiȝed the forsaid graunte and behest or ►promysse◄, to the forsaid Adam and to his heires and to his assignes, ayenst all men and women. »

« Ffrend myn, yt is wel reson that I do so, and wyth ryght a good hert I shal goo to helpe you, for wel I am bounde therunto your ►promysse◄ ye haue ryght wele acquyted vnto me, & an houndred thousand thankes I gyue you therfor. »