Native speaker's help needed- son of a gun

LEENA   Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:20 pm GMT
I've come across the phrase "son of a gun" many times on tv but unsure of what it means.

WHEN I SAY SOMEONE IS A SON OF A GUN,
WHAT DO I MEAN?
HOW DO I FEEL TOWARDS THE PERSON?
HAS IT ANYTHING TO DO WITH OR RELATED TO "SON OF A BITCH?"

PLEASE HELP.
Ben   Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:51 pm GMT
I can't really think of a meaning. It can be used to mean 'rascal'. It's usually said in a light-hearted manner, and is sometimes used as a term of endearment.

I looked it up:

1. A person; a fellow: That son of a gun knows how to sell cars and sell them well.
2. A rascal; a scamp: That son of gun is always playing practical jokes.

Although, here's another view:

The nautical explanation is that in the age of sail, women, wives, mistresses, and prostitutes, were frequently on board ship when in port or sailing in home waters and occasionally children would be born aboard ship. Common sailors slept on the gun deck and when on board, their wives and mistresses would sleep there too. If a child were born on board, it would likely be born on the gun deck. If male, such a child was referred to as a son of a gun. This legend dates back to the mid-19th century. Admiral William Henry Smyth wrote in his 1867 book, the Sailor's Word-book, that is one of the primary sources for data on 19th century nautical lingo:

Son of a gun, an epithet conveying contempt in a slight degree, and originally applied to boys born afloat, when women were permitted to accompany their husbands to sea; one admiral declared he literally was thus cradled, under the breast of a gun-carriage.

Certainly, it has nothing to do with 'son of a bitch'

Ben.
LEENA   Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:17 pm GMT
Thanks Ben.

<Certainly, it has nothing to do with 'son of a bitch' >
However, may I say that 'son of a gun' is a MORE POLITE/NICER way of saying 'son of a bitch' to somebody??????
Uriel   Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:57 pm GMT
Sone of a gun is a milder euphemism for son of a bitch, just as heck is a milder term for hell, and darn for damn, etc. They ARE related.
LEENA   Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:45 am GMT
The meaning of "SON OF A GUN" given in webster's dictionary is :

1. A person; a fellow: That son of a gun knows how to sell cars and sell them well.
2. A rascal; a scamp: That son of gun is always playing practical jokes.

THE DICTIONARY MAKES NO RELATION TO "SON OF A BITCH"

But some native speakers have actually used Son of a gun as a milder euphemism for son of a bitch in their speaking. URIEL on this forum said the two are related.

SHOULD WE TRUST THE DICTIONARY? OR SHOULD WE TAKE A PHRASE'S MEANING ACCORDING TO HOW IT WAS USED BY NATIVE SPEAKERS IN THEIR DAILY SPEAKING?
George   Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:55 am GMT
from dictionary.com:

son of a bitch -

Also, SOB; son of a gun. A mean, disagreeable individual, as in "He was regarded as the worst son of a bitch in the industry", or "He ran out on her? What an SOB", or "He's a real son of a gun when it comes to owing you money."

The first of these terms, calling a man the son of a female dog, dates from the early 1300s and is considered vulgar enough to have given rise to the two variants, both euphemisms. The first variant, an abbreviation, dates from World War I. The second, first recorded in 1708, gave rise to the theory that it originally applied to baby boys born at sea (in the days when women accompanied their husbands on long voyages). The explanation seems unlikely, especially since presumably some of the babies were girls. It also once meant the illegitimate son of a soldier (or "gun"). More probably, however, son of a gun evolved simply as a euphemism for the first term and appealed because of its rhyme. Both it and son of a bitch are also put as interjections expressing surprise, amazement, disgust, or disappointment, as in "Son of a bitch! I lost my ticket", or "I'll be a son of a gun! That must be the governor."
LEENA   Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:10 am GMT
OKAY, SO IT'S SIMPLY:

SON OF A GUN = SON OF A BITCH

GUESS I SHOULD HAVE LOOKED INTO MORE THAN ONE SOURCE FOR MEANINGS.

THANKS A LOT (AND I MEAN A LLLLLOT) GEORGE.