Being British

merry   Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:37 pm GMT
Would the people from Britain class themselves as British first and say, English second? Or Scotish or Welsh. Just curious as to where your loyalties are.
Bob   Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:46 pm GMT
Depends where in Britain you're from and your family background. I've found my dad and his family are determinedly scottish (even to the point of refusing to write british on forms. Only when forced will they write Scot Brit) My cousins, who are english, will make a point of saying they're english unless england or scotland are winning at sports, then they're british. My welsh friends hold on to their welsh identity as strongly as my dad and his family do their scottishness. I however can't really count under any of these.

My mum - English
My dad - Scottish
I live - Wales
I was born - British Military Base, Germany

So I just say I'm british.
Jim C, York   Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:43 pm GMT
Certainly if you have a mixed ethnic background you will most likely refere to your self as British rather than English. Though thankfully this is begining to change now as we reclaim the original meaning of what it is the be English from the right wing (we have always been an immigrant nation, and should always be) . With my self I have a fairly mixed background from these isles and a bit from elsewhere, but I would say I was a Yorkshire man and then an English man whilst around those from the rest of Britain and Ireland. Then I am a Briton around those in the rest of Europe (or possibly the rest of the Commonwealth). Then I am a Briton and a European around those from around the world. I think with those from England its a matter of convenience, if i was to say i was from Yorkshire to an American or who ever that has never been to the UK they may not understand where I mean, where as some one from Britain or Ireland would want to know more specificly where I am from.
Nigel   Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:33 am GMT
>whereas someone from Britain or Ireland would want to know more specifically where I am from.

As would someone from a commonwealth country, who could tell you were from the north, but might not pick the county unless cricket was the topic.
Uriel   Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:41 pm GMT
Is being English, Scottish, Welsh, etc. really a matter of "first" loyalty (vs British), or just a further clarification?
Bob   Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:12 am GMT
For a lot of people it can be their only loyalty. I know people that will refuse to acknowledge that there is even such a thing as "British" and who claim that you have to be one or the other of Scottish, English, Welsh and Irish.
Uriel   Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:25 am GMT
Well, what if you're a mixture?
Bob   Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:06 am GMT
Like me, if your a mixture, you have a choice. You can decide which nationality you want to associate yourself, based on where you live or which culture you find yourself most drawn to, etc, or you can be one of the few who will just say "I'm British".
me   Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:35 pm GMT
The country in which you were born and raised in defines your nationality, in my oppinion.
Uriel   Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:59 pm GMT
But why do you have to pick just one? You have to understand that I'm coming from an American perspective, where we're used to being complete mutts, with several ethnicities to call our own. No one expects you to just choose one.
Irish Guy   Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:07 pm GMT
I also believe your nationality is based on where you were born. I have Irish blood going back as far as I can tell. If I was born in England but had the same parents then I would be English not Irish. That’s nationality as it might be described in a passport or a census form. In the above circumstance my nationality would be English but as far as culture is concerned I would consider myself Irish.
Uriel   Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:15 pm GMT
I guess it's different when nationality also equals ethnicity. No such thing applies here, and we usually have a dual concept of our identity -- nationality (American) AND ethnicity (Czech/Cherokee/Filipino, or whatever).
Damian in Edinburgh   Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:41 pm GMT
The British Isles all go to form one very complex entity....composed of four very distinct portions, all quite different from each other, even down to the Language issue.

For me personally, my order of priority is this:

1 Scottish. That is first and foremost. When asked my nationality, that is what I always say.

2 British (or UK) That is basically the formal way of describing my nationality because that is what my passport says, and when it comes to any issue directly relating to the UK as a whole, then that is what I say I am. At airports coming back in to my country I naturally go through the UK channels (although they all seem to say UK/EU anyway).

3 European. That is undeniable......geographically I am from Europe and my country forms part of the European Union. I never negate or denounce my European involvement, and as a whole, Scots tend to be more disposed to links with Continental Europe than do the English, who are more likely to believe that Being British also means being European.

I feel sorry for the English sometimes. Take the 2001 UK population census. We in Scotland had the option to put "Scottish" down on the census form as being our nationality. (My stepdad filled in the form as I was not all that interested to be honest) although we had the option to say "British". For some weird reason, people in England, on the English census forms, apparently did not have a box giving "English" as a nationality option. Sometimes it seems as if England and the English don't really exist! I know it exists right enough...I see those huge roadside border signs "Welcome to England" so it must exists! And once over the border people begin to "speak funny" as well, so it's true...England DOES exist!

This past Easter weekend I was lucky enough to see all four countries of the UK...I drove down through the south of Scotland, over the border into England, down through England into Wales, and across North Wales to Anglesey to stay with a mate. On Sunday we hopped on a ferry from nearby Holyhead over to Dun Laoghaire, in Ireland and saw the big parade in Dublin celebrating the 1916 Easter Rising...it was amazing. We missed the last ferry back to Holyhead, Wales, that night! So we stayed in Dun Laoghaire, did some bars and when we were sitting in this shelter place we got chatting to a couple of gardai who were great....they knew I was Scottish by my accent, but thought that Andy was English because he speaks a wee bit RP although he is 100% Welsh. The gardai were satisfied that he was not English!! when he spoke Welsh...so it was a case of two Irish guys, a Welshman and a Scot, so it was just right....all mates together, no Sassenach in sight! ;-)
Jim C, York   Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:13 am GMT
Damian: for some reason I guesed you had been else where in Wales on another thread. Ah well my psychic powers are dwindeling.

I certainly agree that it is where you are born and raised that determins what counrty you have allegancies to (spelt wrong). After all, more Americans seem to think they are Irish than there are Irish in Ireland. If I played by them rules I would be some sort of Scotish-Irish-Russian-Jew type, rather than the proud Yorkshireman that I am.

Oh yeah, I have never seen any BIG signs for England, I have seen BIG signs for Wales and Scotland, never England though, I must travel the wrong roads.

I saw the Easter Rising memorial, I liked what the Irish Pres said, very tastefull, especialy about not blaming British soldiers.
lu   Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:26 am GMT
"we usually have a dual concept of our identity -- nationality (American) AND ethnicity (Czech/Cherokee/Filipino, or whatever)"

It's true, same situation in my country