English's loss of Latin

Brendan   Tue May 30, 2006 11:21 am GMT
English has adopted a lot of German, Scandinavian and Anglo-Saxon words and it makes the language so ugly! It was origially latin so I really want to throw away all the Saxon words and put in latin ones. Why is English classified as a Romance language when it's so Germanified?
Benjamin   Tue May 30, 2006 11:40 am GMT
English is not generally (if ever) classified as a Romance language by many (if any) linguists; it is classified as a West Germanic language, in the same category as German and Dutch.
Guest   Tue May 30, 2006 12:03 pm GMT
" English has adopted a lot of German, Scandinavian and Anglo-Saxon words and it makes the language so ugly! It was origially latin so I really want to throw away all the Saxon words and put in latin ones. Why is English classified as a Romance language when it's so Germanified? "

Your "joke" doesn't work. Everybody knows that the situation is the inverse.
Anyway, germanic languages are not more ugly than latin ones, each ones have its own flavours and feelings. I don't understand this obsession of some English-speaking people to be lumped into the latin world with French people, with who they have little in common.



" English is not generally (if ever) classified as a Romance language by many (if any) linguists; "

I would say "English is never and has never been classified as a Romance language; excpet by some anglophones who would liked (I don't know why) to be romance speakers"
Benjamin   Tue May 30, 2006 12:52 pm GMT
« I don't understand this obsession of some English-speaking people to be lumped into the latin world with French people, with who they have little in common. »

Personally, I don't understand this obsession of some French people of being lumped into the same category as the Bolivians, with whom they seem, in my view, to have little in common. But ultimately, we will never be able understand why some people feel certain affinities to other peoples when their affinities seem to contradict our own.
Guest   Tue May 30, 2006 12:53 pm GMT
Anyway, germanic languages are not more ugly than latin ones, each ones have its own flavours and feelings. I don't understand this obsession of some English-speaking people to be lumped into the latin world with French people, with who they have little in common.

Tell that to the French Canadians
Ed   Tue May 30, 2006 2:40 pm GMT
This must be a joke as anyone except the hard of thinking can see that the core vocabulary of the English language is Germanic. If we talk about everyday things like a *house*, *apple*, *blood* we use Germanic words.

I think we should try and get away from this fixation that appears to be widespread in the English-speaking world that Latinate/French words and culture are superior to our own. When we want to appear scientific or sophisticated we resort to Latinate/French words and phrases. Other Germanic languages don't have this obession to nearly the same extent.

Compare the English and Afrikaans:

ante meridiem (AM) - voor middag (VM) - 'before midday'
binoculars - verkyker (literally 'far-viewer')
et al. - en ander (e.a) - 'and others'
et cetera (etc.) - en so voorte (ens.)
i.e. - dit is (d.i.) - 'it is'
répondez s'il vous plaît (RSVP) - antwoord asseblief (A.Asb) - 'reply please'

Or one of my favourites, from German, fernsehen (television).

Of course no language or language family is objectively "better" than another so the silly debate about which is "better" is pointless. However, as someone from an English background, I find Germanic more familiar, homely, solid and reliable, while Romance appears distant, cold or over flowery.
Jav   Tue May 30, 2006 3:07 pm GMT
I would agree with Ed here,

Germanic based words sound very familiar, homely, solid and reliable.

Romance or Hellenic based words are just a bunch of cold letters making up a 'word' which your brain turns into a "Germanic based" description.
greg   Tue May 30, 2006 5:27 pm GMT
Encore un sujet mal initié, fort mal argumenté et qui va mal se terminer...
Sigma   Tue May 30, 2006 6:27 pm GMT
Estoy totalmente de acuerdo contigo greg
fab   Tue May 30, 2006 7:00 pm GMT
" I think we should try and get away from this fixation that appears to be widespread in the English-speaking world that Latinate/French words and culture are superior to our own. When we want to appear scientific or sophisticated we resort to Latinate/French words and phrases. Other Germanic languages don't have this obession to nearly the same extent. "


Je commence à découvrir que les termes d'origine Française ou latine présents en Anglais sont généralement vus comme porteurs dune certaine "noblesse" ou "culture" et sont donc perçu par les Anglophones eux-mêmes comme venant d'une langue qu'ils percevraient comme "sophistiquée". Or le Français n'est absolument pas une langue plus sophistiquée que les langues Germaniques. Cette idée n'est présente que dans la culture Anglophone, due au fait que la cour Anglaise à une certaine époque ait fait un usage importnat de termes Fd'origine Française.
Je crois qu'il est important de préciser que lorsque nous affirmons notre attachement au Français ce n'est pas par "snobisme" par goût de la sophistication ou par esprit de "supériorité" comme beaucoup d'Anglophones le pensent, mais par ce que cette langue nous ratache à nos racines méditerranéennes. (pour nous le Français n'a rien de "snob", au contraire, c'est la langue populaire, évolutive, qui de plus est issue de la partie "non-noble" des traditions orales du latin vulgaire)
Je crois comprendre maintenant qu'un certain nombre d'Anglophones se sentent humiliés quand la France s'identifie à un groupe duquel ils ne font pas partie car ils ressentent celà comme une manière d'exclure la langue Anglaise (et du coup la l'Angleterre) des "langues sohistiquées" et des peuples "civilisés" - Ce n'est asbolument pas le cas, là encore car nous ne percevons pas notre langue comme spécifiquement "sophistiquée", "intellectuelle" ou "supérieure", et la latinité est un concept dans lequel nous nous reconnaissons pour ce qu'il exprime de "populaire" en nous. Au contraire, si nous voulons sembler "snobs" ou branchés nous utiliseront des mots germaniques issus de l'Anglais. (ex. "c'est "hype" ce resto, allons dans le "living room"...etc.")
Je crois que L'Angleterre n'a pas besoin de chercher à ressembler à la France pour
Guest   Tue May 30, 2006 7:25 pm GMT
" Personally, I don't understand this obsession of some French people of being lumped into the same category as the Bolivians, with whom they seem, in my view, to have little in common. "


En l'occurence, ton exemple est assez mal choisi, La Bolivie est un pays parciellement latin. Le Quechua et l'Aymara sont les langues maternelles (et officielles aussi au même titre que l'Espagnol) de 55% de la population du pays, ce sont des langues Amérindiennes. Il est évident que la France n'a que peu de points communs avec cette partie Amérindienne de la Bolivie. Les Boliviens de culture Hispanophone sont minoritaires.
Jav   Tue May 30, 2006 7:29 pm GMT
I think it's very rude to speak in a language other debaters do not comprehend when you are perfectly capable of speaking English.
Fredrik from Norway   Tue May 30, 2006 8:39 pm GMT
Exactly that attitude leads to English dominating international communication: We must not offend anybody, always speak English for the sake of communication.

I don't speak French, but I don't insist on peole deabting in English, because I think linguistical variety is very important!
Aldvs   Tue May 30, 2006 9:42 pm GMT
<<Germanic based words sound very familiar, homely, solid and reliable.

Romance or Hellenic based words are just a bunch of cold letters making up a 'word' which your brain turns into a "Germanic based" description.>>

Jav Jav Jav, still fighting romance languages with nonsense comments ?
Aldvs Sacapus   Tue May 30, 2006 9:43 pm GMT
Please guys, DON'T FEED THE TROLLS !