Possession: Have you vs Do you have

Guest   Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:17 pm GMT
06.06.06
A6059HC   Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:28 pm GMT
"That's actually nothing new in English (it arose with Early Modern English as a periphrastic affirmative construction). 'I do' has long been used as an affirmative for any verb, so that should be no exception. Observe the following"

Further to what Kirk states here, we should not forget the emphatic construction in English which is "do"+"base verb form" (infinitive). This is what allows "do" to stand in as an affirmative for most any verb:

Q: You make all your clothes yourself?

A: I do [make all my clothes myself].


Q: You really like dancing, eh?

A: I do [really like dancing].

Etc., etc.
Glikeria   Tue Jun 06, 2006 3:57 am GMT
Tnx, folks! I got the answer with a bonus :).
Guest   Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:24 am GMT
So an American wouldn't typically say "Have you got <such and such>?" yet "You've got .../I've got.../ etc" constructed statements are common enough?
Kirk   Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:00 am GMT
<<So an American wouldn't typically say "Have you got <such and such>?" yet "You've got .../I've got.../ etc" constructed statements are common enough?>>

Pretty much. For whatever reason "Have you got...?" isn't impossible in NAE but it just isn't as common as "do you have...?" Both "I've got" and "I have" work in NAE and either is fairly common tho I'd have to say in my personal usage "I have" is probably most common. I'll let the others comment about their usage.
Rick Johnson   Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:04 am GMT
I'm not sure that either of the two phrases can be classified as purely BE or AE as "Do you have..." is probably the general standard in modern English everywhere. However, it sounds extremely American if someone asks "Can I get.......?"
Damian in Edinburgh   Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:25 am GMT
The head of the department where I work nearly always comes up to you and says "Can you spare a moment?" whenever he wants to chat with you in private about anything and everything. I cannae tell you how irritating I find that, especially as he bends down and virtually whispers it in your ear. It's as if he's about to send you down the road or something and doesnae want anybody else to know about it....in the end it's invariably something stupidly trivial. It must be crap to be a drama queen.

For those not familiar with the expression, when we say "to be sent down the road" it simply means to be fired...sacked...given the boot..given the auld heave-ho...Alan Sugar style.

This morning it's another fine summer's day in Auld Reekie.....must get started now or else I'll be sent down the road. Enjoy...Cheers!
Presley.   Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:06 am GMT
I'm American, but I'm just weird so I say, "Have you a pencil?".
Hermione   Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:51 am GMT
>Maybe he meant the usage I quite often hear from Americans (and increasingly from the British:

>Q: Have you got a pen?
>A: Yes, I do

I did mean that, Aquatar. Sorry about the bad example.

>This used to sound strange to me, as in BE the reply would more likely >be 'Yes, I have', although as I said, I have noticed the AE usage >creeping in, and have even caught myself using it.

Yes, it has become quite common in the UK, and really sounds odd. It could be a result of saturation media influence, or perhaps because people just don't listen to the question. I still try to answer a "have" question with a "have" answer, and a "do" question with a "do" answer, but know I occasionally fail to do the right thing.
A6078EV   Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:10 pm GMT
"I still try to answer a 'have' question with a 'have' answer, and a 'do' question with a 'do' answer, but know I occasionally fail to do the right thing."

You're obviously thinking far too much about how you speak!
Bonnie Zhang   Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:27 pm GMT
May I point out that even American children sing:
"Baa baa black sheep, have you any wool?"
and not
"Baa baa black sheep, d'you have any wool?"

I guess Hermione does think too much about how she speaks, but we all know who Hermione is. By the way, Hermione, I've always wanted to ask: Do you have English lessons at Hogwarts? I mean, they've got to keep you up to the mark with your essay-writing skills at least, no? And then, you might have to read old texts written in Middle English and such. Also, I don't understand why you haven't got French lessons at Hogwarts, especially as the Beauxbâtons pupils learn English (you must admit, Fleur's English is quite decent despite her accent).
Aquatar   Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:44 pm GMT
Hermione

I guess I should have referred to you as 'she' then? You called yourself 'Herm' in the earlier post, so I must have been assuming that was short for 'Herman' lol

Glad I was able to clarify what you meant anyway.
Uriel   Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:04 am GMT
Bonnie, American children may sing that song the traditional way, but they certainly don't speak that way in normal conversation.

We have an Indian doctor at work who did much of his medical training in the UK, and I can always tell his notes, even when typed, because he uses the construction "has got" all the time -- "She has got a pressure ulcer to the right heel", where an American doctor would simply use "has" -- "She has a pressure ulcer on the right heel".

Incidentally, MY favorite double entendre using "Do you have ..." comes from the (mostly awful) British movies "Lair of the White Worm" --

Innocent stranger: "Do you have children?"
Mistress of the White Worm: "Only when there are no men around."
The Baz   Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:24 am GMT
I'm somewhat surprised that the DIFFERENCE between "Do(does,did,will) ___ have...?" and "Have ____ ...?" hasn't been brought up here. While American English considers most uses equally (and use "Do you have...?" equally for all), British English DOES make a distinction between which is proper when.

If the expected affirmative answer is a simple "yes", one uses "Do ___ have...?":

Ex: "Do we have the meeting at three today?"

The expected affirmative answer would acceptably be "yes".

However, if the expected affirmative answer implies a request for further information or action on the part of the listener, the form "Have ____...?" is proper:

Ex: "Have you any questions?"

Here, the expected affirmative answer is not simply "yes"; it is the presenting of said question.

Ex: "Baa, baa, black sheep --
Have you any wool?"

Here, the expected affirmative answer is not simply "yes"; it is for said sheep to present said wool if it exists, hence, the sheep going beyond a simple "Yes, sir! Yes, sir!" (which would be considered rude or flippant if left at that) to "Three bags full!" (i.e., "...and here they are, sir.").

Ex: "Have you a pen?", "Have you the time?"

To answer either of these questions with a simple "yes" would be rude, sarcastic, or (at best) an attempt at humor. Both imply that the receiver would, if affirmative, lend the pen or state the time, respectively.

Some cases may seem quite similar, but the proper usage makes an implication about what the asker expects:

Ex: "Do you have any children?"

If asked by a tax accountant, this question is quite fine. The simple answer "yes" is all that would be expected, if the receiver does, in fact, have children. The accountant will check the "yes" box and likely next ask, "And how many children do you have?"

However:

Ex: "Have you any children?"

This would be proper if asked during a social walk between people getting to know each other. The asker does not simply want a "yes", if affirmative. She expects something along the lines of "Yes, I have three: two boys, 5 and 7, and a girl, 9."
Glikeria   Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:33 am GMT
An interesting twist, the Baz. But since we've been tackling possession, "Do we have the meeting at three today?" is irrelevant, isn't it?
OK, am I to underestand in Britain
Have you=You have, haven't you?
And without any prior knowledge people always say Do you have ?