Can someone tell me more about RP English where is it in South England they speak this??
Received Pronuncation
Probably nowhere naturally, I've always tended to think this was something learned rather than aquired.
Originally, though, Received Pronunciation was based off the native dialects of the Home Counties in southern England, but was not identical to such.
I think the very word "received" suggests that this pronunciation is not naturally acquired but learned at schools, universities etc. This accent was used as a tool of social discrimination to distinguish the educated high class people in Britain from all the rest. Correct me if I'm wrong.
All of you guys are more or less correct in what you say. Essentially, RP is English, through and through - by that I mean it is an accent of England, and certainly the South of England, and as TRAVIS says, many people see it as a sort of Home Counties accent really although in reality it can be spread right across England. My guess is that you can find native born Liverpudlian or Geordie professional types - lawyers, bankers, etc - who can be classed as RP speakers and it would be difficult to pinpoint their home area from the generally accepted accent of that area. As VYTENIS says it can be linked to a person's level of education really, and maybe still associated with social background. As I say, an "English thing"...I reckon it's fair to say that. It doesn't mean you never find "professional types" with regional accents, sometimes quite strong ones....you certainly do. My tutors at uni had quite a varied range of regional British accents...some stronger than others, and of course one or two with top rate mega plush RP....but not many to be honest.
You have to distiniguish standard English RP from the more or less defunct (thank God) excruciating "posh" English accents with "fah beck vahwels" perfected with the aid of marbles in the mouth. To those guys sex were things you kept rubbish in. As an English thing, I'd rather have Estuary any time of the day (or night). RP is just "standard BE" without the influence of recognisable regional accents, be it West Country, Black Country (nothing to do with race at all!!!), Scouse, Geordie, Brummie, East Anglian or wherever.
All this is an English thing I say, risking repetition. North of the Border here I'm glad to say we are not affected by the RP issue, (nor in beautiful Cymric Wales where I have been for a couple of days for the first time in my life) but that doesn't mean we have some Scottish accents less appealing than others, but it depends on your point of view, as with everything. We are all different...the same, but different. This is one big paradox called the United Kingdom! ! Cheers fir the noo! :-)
You have to distiniguish standard English RP from the more or less defunct (thank God) excruciating "posh" English accents with "fah beck vahwels" perfected with the aid of marbles in the mouth. To those guys sex were things you kept rubbish in. As an English thing, I'd rather have Estuary any time of the day (or night). RP is just "standard BE" without the influence of recognisable regional accents, be it West Country, Black Country (nothing to do with race at all!!!), Scouse, Geordie, Brummie, East Anglian or wherever.
All this is an English thing I say, risking repetition. North of the Border here I'm glad to say we are not affected by the RP issue, (nor in beautiful Cymric Wales where I have been for a couple of days for the first time in my life) but that doesn't mean we have some Scottish accents less appealing than others, but it depends on your point of view, as with everything. We are all different...the same, but different. This is one big paradox called the United Kingdom! ! Cheers fir the noo! :-)
<<Probably nowhere naturally, I've always tended to think this was something learned rather than aquired.>>
Yeah, I think I'd define RP as a non-regional or pan-regional sociolect.
Yeah, I think I'd define RP as a non-regional or pan-regional sociolect.
**Received Pronunciation is the mother tongue of people from Cambridge.**
Really, JILS? How about the mother tongue of people from Oxford then? Wasn't that the home of something called "Oxford English"? My dictionary defines Oxford English as: "That form of the received pronunciation of English supposed to be typical of Oxford University and regarded by many (and this is the funny bit!) as affected and pretentious". LOL
I've been to both Cambridge and Oxford (as a visitor and not to uni at either..I was at Leeds uni... oop north!) and both are elegant university cities and to my mind the general accents (diregarding the many, many non-Brits) of people....in the stores, the library, wherever.... were identical. In a good many, hints of Estuary were present, some more than others.
My cousin from Edinburgh married a girl from Wallingford, just outside Oxford and I wore my kilt to the wedding as he did and most of the other Scots males. All her family must have spoken Oxford English 21st century style.....none of them sounded affected or pretentious at all! No way! In fact, a really nice form of English English which blended well with the nice form of Scottish Scottish. :-) Did the whisky flow well that night? ask a silly question....
RP is more or less a standard form of "non dialectal , non-regionally accented" English found all over England (and in Scotland in our own Scottish version.....like mine as a matter of fact and most likely down in Wales as well with their own Cymric version), so it is definitely not restricted to the fair and gracious city of Cambridge.
PS: Isn't that view of King's College from across the River Cam and over the Backs just fantastic?
Cheers.
Really, JILS? How about the mother tongue of people from Oxford then? Wasn't that the home of something called "Oxford English"? My dictionary defines Oxford English as: "That form of the received pronunciation of English supposed to be typical of Oxford University and regarded by many (and this is the funny bit!) as affected and pretentious". LOL
I've been to both Cambridge and Oxford (as a visitor and not to uni at either..I was at Leeds uni... oop north!) and both are elegant university cities and to my mind the general accents (diregarding the many, many non-Brits) of people....in the stores, the library, wherever.... were identical. In a good many, hints of Estuary were present, some more than others.
My cousin from Edinburgh married a girl from Wallingford, just outside Oxford and I wore my kilt to the wedding as he did and most of the other Scots males. All her family must have spoken Oxford English 21st century style.....none of them sounded affected or pretentious at all! No way! In fact, a really nice form of English English which blended well with the nice form of Scottish Scottish. :-) Did the whisky flow well that night? ask a silly question....
RP is more or less a standard form of "non dialectal , non-regionally accented" English found all over England (and in Scotland in our own Scottish version.....like mine as a matter of fact and most likely down in Wales as well with their own Cymric version), so it is definitely not restricted to the fair and gracious city of Cambridge.
PS: Isn't that view of King's College from across the River Cam and over the Backs just fantastic?
Cheers.
<<RP is more or less a standard form of "non dialectal , non-regionally accented" English found all over England (and in Scotland in our own Scottish version.....like mine as a matter of fact and most likely down in Wales as well with their own Cymric version),>>
To some extent yes, but RP is usually described as containing features like the long [A:] in words like "bath" and "grass". To me this is very much a southern English feature (I'm from the north of England, and use short [a], as in "cat") and so I associate RP with southern England. You do come across a handful of northerners who use it, but not very many.
To some extent yes, but RP is usually described as containing features like the long [A:] in words like "bath" and "grass". To me this is very much a southern English feature (I'm from the north of England, and use short [a], as in "cat") and so I associate RP with southern England. You do come across a handful of northerners who use it, but not very many.
That's true, yes. If you disregard the long [A:] aspect..the Southern English ['ba:th] and ['cla:ss] as opposed to the Northern English ['b@th] and ['cl@ss] and any influence of regionalisms then RP is more or less standard all over England as you say.
I don't know how familiar you are with Scotland, but the "A" approximates more to the Southern English rather than the very short, sharp Northern English version.
I don't know how familiar you are with Scotland, but the "A" approximates more to the Southern English rather than the very short, sharp Northern English version.
An overview of "Received Pronunciation"
More notes on Pronunciations of English ([David CRYSTAL: The Cambridge Encyclopaedia of the English Language. Cambridge University Press, 1995. ISBN: 0 521 40179 8.]):
In England, one accent has traditionally stood out above all others in its ability to convey associations of respectable social standing and a good education. This "prestige" accent is known as RECEIVED PRONUNCIATION, or RP. It is associated with the south-east, where most RP-speakers live or work, but it can be found anywhere in the country. Accents usually tell us where a person is from; RP tells us only about a person's social or educational background.
In due course, RP came to sybolize a person's high position in society. During the 19th century, it became the accent of public schools, such as Eton and Harrow, and was soon the main sign that a speaker had received a good education. It spread rapidly throughout the Civil Service of the British Empire and the armed forces, and became the voice of authority and power. Because it was a regionally 'neutral' accent, and was thought to be more widely understood than any regional accent, it came to adopted by the BBC, when radio broadcasting began in the 1920s. During WW2, it became linked in many minds with the voice of freedom, and the notion of a "BBC pronunciation" grew.
...
Today, with the breakdown of rigid divisions between social classes and the development of the mass media, RP is no longer the preserve of a social elite. It is best described as an "educated" accent - though "accents" would be more precise, for there are several varieties. The most widely used is that generally heard on the BBC; but there are also conservative and trend-setting forms. The former is found in many older establishment speakers. The latter is usually associated with certain social and professional groups - in particular, the voice of the London upwardly mobile ("the Sloane Rangers") in the 1980s.
Early BBC recordings show how much RP has altered over just a few decades, and they point that no acccent is immune to change, not even 'the best'. But the most important observation is that RP is no longer as widely used today as it was 50 years ago. It is still the standard accent of the Royal Family, Parliament, the Church of England, the High Courts, and other national institutions; but less than 3 per cent of the British people speak it in a pure form now. Most educated people have developed an accent which is a mixture of RP and various regional characteristics -'modified RP', some call it.
Nonetheless RP continues to retain considerable status. It has long been the chief accent taught to foreigners who wish to learn a British model, and is thus widely used abroad (by far more peole, in fact, than have it as a mother-tounge accent in the UK).
Pietro E. Reyes, posting in soc.culture.filipino
www.yaef.com
More notes on Pronunciations of English ([David CRYSTAL: The Cambridge Encyclopaedia of the English Language. Cambridge University Press, 1995. ISBN: 0 521 40179 8.]):
In England, one accent has traditionally stood out above all others in its ability to convey associations of respectable social standing and a good education. This "prestige" accent is known as RECEIVED PRONUNCIATION, or RP. It is associated with the south-east, where most RP-speakers live or work, but it can be found anywhere in the country. Accents usually tell us where a person is from; RP tells us only about a person's social or educational background.
In due course, RP came to sybolize a person's high position in society. During the 19th century, it became the accent of public schools, such as Eton and Harrow, and was soon the main sign that a speaker had received a good education. It spread rapidly throughout the Civil Service of the British Empire and the armed forces, and became the voice of authority and power. Because it was a regionally 'neutral' accent, and was thought to be more widely understood than any regional accent, it came to adopted by the BBC, when radio broadcasting began in the 1920s. During WW2, it became linked in many minds with the voice of freedom, and the notion of a "BBC pronunciation" grew.
...
Today, with the breakdown of rigid divisions between social classes and the development of the mass media, RP is no longer the preserve of a social elite. It is best described as an "educated" accent - though "accents" would be more precise, for there are several varieties. The most widely used is that generally heard on the BBC; but there are also conservative and trend-setting forms. The former is found in many older establishment speakers. The latter is usually associated with certain social and professional groups - in particular, the voice of the London upwardly mobile ("the Sloane Rangers") in the 1980s.
Early BBC recordings show how much RP has altered over just a few decades, and they point that no acccent is immune to change, not even 'the best'. But the most important observation is that RP is no longer as widely used today as it was 50 years ago. It is still the standard accent of the Royal Family, Parliament, the Church of England, the High Courts, and other national institutions; but less than 3 per cent of the British people speak it in a pure form now. Most educated people have developed an accent which is a mixture of RP and various regional characteristics -'modified RP', some call it.
Nonetheless RP continues to retain considerable status. It has long been the chief accent taught to foreigners who wish to learn a British model, and is thus widely used abroad (by far more peole, in fact, than have it as a mother-tounge accent in the UK).
Pietro E. Reyes, posting in soc.culture.filipino
www.yaef.com
Guest post above...the one before Mastermind Sir Adam's copy/pastie jobbie ....was mine.
I just wrote out a fairly lengthy scripto about one of my bestest mates Andy ...took me fucking ages to write .....and when I hit the "send message" button I lost server connection for some reason and the whole fucking lot went into orbit. I'm no best pleased so I'm pissing off out to have some fun after a crap busy day. I didnae feel like typing the whole lot out again and I'm too fucking tired to remember it all verbatim anyway. It was all about the delectable Andy being a 100% Welshman, speaks fluent Welsh, but when he speaks English he sounds as if he comes from Kent or somewhere insane and English. I reckon he's RP model: modfied.
im out of here
I just wrote out a fairly lengthy scripto about one of my bestest mates Andy ...took me fucking ages to write .....and when I hit the "send message" button I lost server connection for some reason and the whole fucking lot went into orbit. I'm no best pleased so I'm pissing off out to have some fun after a crap busy day. I didnae feel like typing the whole lot out again and I'm too fucking tired to remember it all verbatim anyway. It was all about the delectable Andy being a 100% Welshman, speaks fluent Welsh, but when he speaks English he sounds as if he comes from Kent or somewhere insane and English. I reckon he's RP model: modfied.
im out of here
<<Probably nowhere naturally, I've always tended to think this was something learned rather than aquired.>>
<<Yeah, I think I'd define RP as a non-regional or pan-regional sociolect.>>
Lazar, I tend to think that accents in certain parts of southern England sound more like RP than others though. For example, the Cockney accent certainly sounds less like RP than certain other accents in the south of England.
<<Yeah, I think I'd define RP as a non-regional or pan-regional sociolect.>>
Lazar, I tend to think that accents in certain parts of southern England sound more like RP than others though. For example, the Cockney accent certainly sounds less like RP than certain other accents in the south of England.
--the Cockney accent certainly sounds less like RP than certain other accents in the south of England. --
you mean Brummie ? :)
you mean Brummie ? :)
<<That's true, yes. If you disregard the long [A:] aspect..the Southern English ['ba:th] and ['cla:ss] as opposed to the Northern English ['b@th] and ['cl@ss] and any influence of regionalisms then RP is more or less standard all over England as you say.
I don't know how familiar you are with Scotland, but the "A" approximates more to the Southern English rather than the very short, sharp Northern English version. >>
I'd say the northern vowel is usually [a] (not [{]) and the RP vowel is [A:] (X-SAMPA).
To my ears, most Scots seem to have a vowel closer to the northern one, but I do sometimes hear Scottish accents with a "bath" vowel which sounds closer to the RP one.
Do you have a distinction between the vowels of "cat" and "calm"?
I don't know how familiar you are with Scotland, but the "A" approximates more to the Southern English rather than the very short, sharp Northern English version. >>
I'd say the northern vowel is usually [a] (not [{]) and the RP vowel is [A:] (X-SAMPA).
To my ears, most Scots seem to have a vowel closer to the northern one, but I do sometimes hear Scottish accents with a "bath" vowel which sounds closer to the RP one.
Do you have a distinction between the vowels of "cat" and "calm"?