The Vlach (aromanian) language

Arber Zaimi   Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:26 am GMT
I have the oportunity to have some friends from the Vlach community of southern albania. Few generations ago they lived as nomad shepherds, and had a very interesting culture. Nowadays this people are urbanized, but still they speak their language (Albanian is second to them, even though they speak it perfectly). It is a latin language, and I know it is highly intelligible with Romanian. Now, I wonder, how come this people speak the same language with todays romanians? Are this the descendants of Roman colonizers (this sounds strange, because they were shepherds), or probably are remnants of the Bulgaro-Vlach empire?What about the vlachs of Greece (Pindus, Meglena, Agrinio, San Marini)?They speak the same language, how come they are considered latinized hellenes?
Waiting for your answers!
Marius   Sat Jun 24, 2006 11:06 pm GMT
"They speak the same language, how come they are considered latinized hellenes"

Latinized Hellenes ??? – That was an unsuccessful nationalistic Greek propaganda! Those people in Greece speak very clearly a dialect of Romanian. Megleno-Romanian.

“(known as Vlaheshte by speakers or Megleno-Romanian by linguists)

Megleno-Romanian. is a Romance language, similar to Aromanian, spoken in the Moglená region of Greece, in a few villages in Republic of Macedonia and a village in Romania. Spoken by the Moglenite Vlachs, it is considered an endangered language.

Megleno-Romanian is a member of the Italic branch of the Indo-European language family; more specifically, it is an Eastern Romance language, a language formed after the retreat of the Roman Empire from South-Eastern Europe. Some linguists consider it to be an intermediary between Romanian and Aromanian, often being considered either a dialect of Romanian or Aromanian or an independent language. It is closer to standard Romanian than the Aromanian spoken by a much larger community in the Pindus."

The Romanian languages formed after the Roman retreat :

1.Daco-Romanian (Modern Romanian -spoken in Romania, Moldova, Vojvodina, Canada, USA, Russia, Ukraine, Israel, Serbia, Hungary, the Balkans)
2.Aromanian (spoken in Greece, Albania, Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Republic of Macedonia )
3.Istro-Romanian (spoken in Istria Croatia )
4.Megleno-Romanian (spoken in Greece, Republic of Macedonia )

Why so many Romanian languages?

Because after the Roman retreat, some Romanised population from present Romania, around 6 century, migrated south in the Balkans, to present day Greece, Albania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Macedonia. Those Romanian dialects…

1.Daco-Romanian
2.Aromanian
3.Istro-Romanian
4.Megleno-Romanian

…evolved separately, but after 1.400 years, they are still inter-intelligible. Some linguists consider them separate languages. All of them evolved from Proto-Romanian, the oldest Romance language.
Georgero   Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:02 am GMT
@Marius

I wouldn't say "so many Romanian" languages. Those are just dialects.

@Brennus
Actually, the origin of "ferăstrău" is also doubtful. It could be the other way arround since the word is containing the part "fer", similar with Latin word "ferrum", "fier, fer" in today Romanian, meaning "iron". See also, Hungarian word "feredö", "bathtub", eventually made of metal.
Georgero   Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:15 am GMT
@ Brennus

Again, "cătină" did not disappear from Romanian. By contrary, it means "hedge", it is a plant used for hedges and it still frequently used in countryside.
The word "liliac" (bat) is indeed Bulgarian. But it is not Slavic. Its origin is Non-Slavic Bulgarian, (initially Bulgarian, before merging with Slavic population) and it comes from Turkic (posible Tatar) word leylak.
Of course, there are many theories of Romanians origin, in my oppinion I think the true one is that Romanians existed on both left and right of Danube long before Slavic and Turkic populations arrived.
Georgero   Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:24 pm GMT
@Brennus

See

dexonline.ro

Actually, you'll be surprise by the multiple meanings of "cătină". And also by the number of dictionaries mentioning it.
adam szoltysek   Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:28 am GMT
hello. do you know what`s called "sugar" in Aromanian language, because I collect this word and I`ve got him in 325 languages. thanks very much
Georgero   Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:21 pm GMT
Probably it's identical with Romanian, "zahăr". But I can't tell for sure.
adam szoltysek   Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:58 pm GMT
thanks for interesting. maybe I will looking for an Aromanian dictionary or person who can speak this language for sure :) my collection is available on my site-> www.zucker.prv.pl best regards
Georgero   Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:15 am GMT
There is a user on this forum who says that he is Aromanian. He posts with the nickname Alexandru. However, his Aromanian writing doesn't look very authentic to me.
adam szoltysek   Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:47 am GMT
I have got "sugar" in Aromanian yet :) I have got "sugar" in 334 languages! Best regards.
Roman   Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:06 am GMT
There is basic word in Aromanian and also in Timoc Romanian that disappeared in standard Romanian, I mean the word <ama> or <ma> which in Romanian is <dar> coming from Slavic (in English <but>). It is my understanding that some of words had been replaced by words of closest surrounding nations either Greek or Slavic. It is my biggest hope that this language will not die, and partly may to the fact that the other <Vlachs>, those of Serb Timoc, may have started to revive their identity and the true meaning of the word Vlach.
As for that origin of the Vlach word I would say that it comes orginially from German language, which designates a <stranger>. The name like Wales (U.K), Wallonie (Belgium), Vloshska (Polish designating Italians) have no connection at all with the Greek shepherd.
Anyway there is lot of mystery about our history.

Roman
Georgero   Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:10 am GMT
I wouldn't call them "Greek shepherds" neither.
Georgero   Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:14 pm GMT
"Ama" is Turkish. It means "but" in Turkish. Romanians never had this word, only Aromanians used it.
Roman   Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:33 pm GMT
In Italian <ma> means <but> so I don't know how Turkish this word is.
Georgero   Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:03 am GMT
I don't know the exact ethimology, but in Turkish is "ama". Also, some Pamirian languages use it too.