confusing the terms nationality with citizenship?

1.€€€   Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:23 pm GMT
Why people and even officials are confusing the terms nationality with citizenship?

An example here:

British nationality (is incorrect)
American nationality (incorrect as well)

British citizenship (correct)
USA citizenship (correct)

Why incorrect?

Nationality is about NATION (from Latin NATIONIS = race, people, breed )

“British” is not a nation, Only English, Scottish, Welsh , Irish are nations – British is irrelevant – you could be anything, English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh or a foreigner.

Same goes for American “nationality” – What American nation? Immigrants from all over the world are now a Nation?

"Nationality" is an old fashion term still in use today, from the times when a French people was mostly a French national , but today a French resident could be black or yellow, pertaining to a different nation, hence only a French citizen. Nationality should be totally replaced with citizenship. Because the etymology of “Nation” (from Latin NATIONIS = race, people, breed ) is irrelevant in today’s use of “Nationality” inaccurately expressing something else…

When the ancient Romans conquered other Nations, the conquered nations become ROMAN CITIZENS from Latin ( civis = citizen, townsman, bourgeois, burgess ) not Roman Nationals. Some others where granted Roman citizenship and not Roman Nationality.

Nationis and Civis are totally different terms.
greg   Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:17 am GMT

En France, c'est très différent. Pour signifier l'appartenance à un pays on utilise le terme <nationalité> : « Pablo est de nationalité espagnole ». Si maintenant tu évoques le cas d'un ex-Marocain devenu citoyen espagnol, tu diras : « Hassan est de nationalité espagnole ».
La nationalité n'a ***ABSOLUMENT AUCUNE*** connotation ethnique : c'est surtout un concept juridique.

Il existe toutefois une exception (en français), c'est le glissement de sens qui s'opère pour désigner les peuples ou ethnies de l'ex-URSS. Ce glissement de sens est calqué sur la terminologie de l'administration soviétique alors en vigueur : nationalité abkhaze, nationalité allemande (Volga) etc.

Le mot <citoyenneté> est également utilisé mais il est d'un usage moins fréquent même si c'est un synonyme de <nationalité>.

Si tu vois des Français utiliser le terme <nationality> en anglais, c'est très souvent à <nationalité> qu'ils pensent, pas à <nationality> : <nationalité> et <nationality> sont deux faux-amis partiels.
Guest   Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:34 am GMT
There is no confusion. Nationality and citizenship ARE synonymous. Your passport has nothing to do with your ethnicity.
second guest   Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:43 am GMT
no they are not synonyms.

• citizenship = n. condition of being a member of a country
• nationality = quality of being part of a particular nation; patriotism; national ownership (of property)
Guest   Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:47 am GMT
That's just a definition out of a dictionary but one infers the other anyway.

So if you're of Italian nationality, then you have Italian citizenship, and vice-versa.
Tiffany   Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:44 am GMT
Brennus, I have no clue what you are talking about. In modern English today, nationality is synonymous with citizenship.

This is the definition of nationality:
n : the status of belonging to a particular nation by birth or naturalization

This means you are a CITIZEN of the country. For example, a person of Italian descent living in America cannot claim to have Italian nationality if this person does not possess Italian citizenship. He or she is simply of Italian DESCENT. This is the same for every other race, ethnicity, etc.

The entire premise of 1.€€€'s argument is that in LATIN, the roots of the English words mean something different. This is fine for LATIN, but this is ENGLISH. You can't argue because it meant one thing long ago in another language, it has to mean the same thing today in a different language. It doesn't. Languages evolve.

<<Same goes for American “nationality” – What American nation? Immigrants from all over the world are now a Nation? >>

Actually, yes, especially in regards to the US. Maybe you need to definition of the English word "nation" to jog your memory.

nation: n 1: a politically organized body of people under a single government;

Remember, we're under that idiot, Bush and his administration.
Guest   Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:17 am GMT
You will hear "English nationals" in the press meaning English citizens travelling abroad with an English passport. They could be Muslims, of Indian decent, Black, White, etc, etc. Religion and race do not come into this. To think an "English national" means a White Christian is invalid.

The same can be said for German nationals, Chinese nationals, people of XYZ nationality, etc.
Uriel   Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:07 am GMT
It probably depends on where you're from. In the US, and to me as an American, nationality and citizenship are the same thing, interchangeable synonyms. (As they are for Tiffany -- I know exactly where you're coming from.) But in Europe, they seem to mean two different things. I get the feeling from discussions with British people elsewhere that they have separate meanings in the UK as well, so it might not be accurate to say that they mean the same thing IN ENGLISH as a whole.
Jeanette   Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:59 am GMT
I'm doing a high school report and my subject is "A brief history of Italian Nationality. I'm confused on what to write about, seeing how I cannot find any information on it. Any help out there?
Guest   Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:09 am GMT
Mmm Neopolitan icecream.