Did you know this?
This numbers are nonsense ! what percentage of evolution ? from what Latin ? Vulgar Latin or Classical Latin ? because some languages are closer to classical latin and more far away from vulgar Latin.
sarde : 8 % ;
italien : 12 % ;
castillan : 20 % ;
roumain : 23,5 % ;
occitan : 25 % ;
portugais : 31 % ;
français : 44 %.
Those numbers make Romanian 23,5% closer to Occitan 25% - but that is a total crap ! Romanian is not the closest to Occitan ! or Spanish (20%)
1.Romanian is closer to Italian than anything.
2. Occitan is closer to French than anything.
3. Portuguese is to Spanish than anything.
Therefore those numbers and % have no logic!
Everybody knows that Portuguese is closer to Spanish than any other language.
Portuguese (has the so called 31%) than why 31% of Portuguese is the closest to 20% of Spanish and not the 25% of Occitan or the 23.5% of Romanian ?
I'll tell you why, because those numbers and % are full crap !
If you make a mathematical analogy and consider those percentages as deviations of X, they don’t make any sense considering the languages they represent.
Remember is impossible for :
Portuguese={31% divergent of X}(TO BE closer to Spanish {20% divergent of X} it should be closer to the 25% of Occitan or 23,5% of Romanian.
There is something wrong with those % numbers because Portuguese is indeed closer to Spanish than Romanian or Occitan, like those % numbers want to show us !
If you are in doubt, I can prove this in a mathematical formula.
If Sardinian is 8% evolution from Latin that is in mathematics:
8% divergent from X (where x is the same source deviation for any language)
Conforming with the theory of analogy the numbers don’t represent accurately the deviance of X
Those numbers are incorrect !
It's all about "phonology" in the end. Sardinian, Italian & Spanish have closer phonetic connection. Romanian also does, but it's %3.5 more evolved. I've heard Romanian, and frankly at times it sounds like Russian or even French. LoL....French Inspired and Russian conquered. Now, that's funny.
Pythagoras, those data reveal only the extent to which evolution has happened, not the direction in which it has gone. Therefore it may still well be useful.
Pythagoras, Portuguese and Spanish are 'only' similar in vocabulary. When it comes to phonetics it's the total opposite.
É sempre a mesma coisa, os assuntos não mudam de assunto, gente, eu também sou gente, gente...
"How in the world did you guys end up with "nombres" ('names' in Spanish) for numbers? Is the "s" at the end not pronounced? "
No, el "s" final no esta prononciado en Frances. se prononcia unicamente cuando la palabra siguiente empieza con un vocal.
"I think French got "nombre" from Latin "numeru(m)"."
True, that is not far from the latin word.
" Spanish got "nombre" from Latin "nomine(m)", like "hombre" from "homine(m)". "
In this case it is spanish that took "bre" al final.
lat. Hominem, it. Uomo, fr. Homme, es. Hombre
"Pythagoras, Portuguese and Spanish are 'only' similar in vocabulary. "
No, also in terms of syntax and gramar.
" When it comes to phonetics it's the total opposite "
depends wich spanish and wich portuguese you are comparating.
A same language can have very different phonetics, but stay a same language. For exemple Quebec french and french with a southern france accent would seem completly different to foreigners due to phonology, but are the same language.
Those numbers really are a joke (tarte a l creme). There is no true scientific way to guage the distance that any Romance language has diverged from Latin. There's no scientific way that you can measure how close or apart any Romance language is from one to another either. Romanian is strikingly similar to Italian in many ways. But Spanish is very close to Italian in many other ways. The same can be said about how Italian looks closer to French on paper, but how Italian sounds much closer to Spanish when spoken. All of this is what makes the study of Romance languages so fascinating. And it's the reason why we have this particular internet forum.
Spanish and Portuguese are different in Phonology.
PORTUGUESE:
The phonetic system of the Portuguese language is extremely rich.
In standard Portuguese it consists of 9 simple vowels, 5 nasalized vowels, 2 semivowels, 25 simple diphthongs, 4 nasalized diphthongs, 5 simple triphthongs, 4 nasalized triphthongs, 21 consonants, or a total of "75" entities. Unstressed vowels are reduced. The nasalization is indicated in the orthography by m or n following the vowel (e.g., sim yes, bem well) or by the use of a tilde (~) over the vowel (mão hand, nação nation).
The consonants have almost the same value as in other Romance languages, with some variation from region to region. The most important variations are that rr is generally alveolar in Portugal and frequently uvular (as in French) or guttural in Brazil, and that sounds corresponding to English [ch] and [dj] do not exist in Portugal but are found in Brazil represented by ti and di. Lh corresponds to Spanish ll (as pronounced in Latin America) and Italian gl. Nh corresponds to Spanish ñ and Italian / French gn. Ch and j are pronounced as in French. The dental character of the consonants d, t, n, and l is more pronounced in Portuguese than in English, because in Portuguese pronunciation the tongue tends to touch the base of the upper teeth.
http://orbilat.com/Languages/Portuguese/Portuguese.html
SPANISH:
Spanish has simplified the Vulgar Latin vocal system to only "5" open vowels (as in Classical Latin) -- a. e, i, o, u -- that are pronounced clearly and without reduction in both stressed and unstressed positions. The vowels, that are short in Classic Latin, diphthongate when stressed in Spanish.
See the Occurrence of Diphthongs Replacing Stressed Short Vowels in Romance Languages, except for a, cf.:
---->>>>
Spanish only has 5 vowels, while Portuguese has 75 (differentiated types). That's an huge difference.
Aldvs : « Spanish only has 5 vowels, while Portuguese has 75 (differentiated types). That's an huge difference. »
C'est clair !!!
the viril amaro post above is a clone...
Chiffre.- Cipher.
Spanish.- Cifra.
No frenchism at all. A quite common word, perhaps meaning the same in all the languages it appears in.
T'as vu juste, Sergio.
Fr <chiffre> [SifR] {tout nombre de 0 à 9} est dérivé d'AF <cifre> [sifr@] {zéro} issu du médiolatin <cifra> {zéro} dérivé de l'ancien arabe >sifr< {vide ; zéro}, un calque du sanskrit >çunya< {vide ; zéro}.
Outre <cifre>, l'ancien français a développé d'autres formes : <chifre> <giffre> <chyfre>.
Le sens en ancien français est {zéro ; nul ; sans valeur}.
AF <chiffre en angorime> <cifre en argorisme> <chifre en augorisme> = {personne sans valeur}.
Ancien castillan <alguarismo> —> AF <angorime> <argorisme> <augorisme> <algorisme> —> Fr <algorithme>.