American Accent
<<"Actually, I have never heard any North American English dialect which lacks the "lot"-"cloth" split and does not also have the "cot"-"caught" merger."
The same goes for me. From what I've read, I get the impression that among cot-caught unmerged Americans, the lot-cloth split is near-universal.>>
Oh, ok. Well I guess I learned something new, then. I guess I assumed there was "lot-cloth" variation even within "c-c" nonmerged people but maybe not. *sigh*..those strange "cot-caught" non-mergers just have bags full of funny tricks don't they? ;)
<<*sigh*..those strange "cot-caught" non-mergers just have bags full of funny tricks don't they? ;)>>
That they do. :-) I think there's been a polarization where most British lack the lot-cloth split, and most or all c-c unmerged Americans have the lot-cloth split.
I think to myself, to the linguistically uninitiated, this whole conversation must seem like total gibberish. ;-)
<<I think there's been a polarization where most British lack the lot-cloth split, and most or all c-c unmerged Americans have the lot-cloth split.>>
What's interesting is that I think I remember reading that the lot-cloth split is actually quite old, possibly as old as the Great Vowel Shift itself (which it probably arose out of), and only recently have the distinctions been neutralized by some dialects (such as most British dialects and "cot-caught" merged North Americans).
<<I think to myself, to the linguistically uninitiated, this whole conversation must seem like total gibberish. ;-)>>
Hehe--yes, we do a good job of entertaining ourselves with our phonology jargon ;) When I get together with my linguistics-oriented or fellow linguistics-major friends, if there are enough of us we tend to easily slip into such stuff to the bewilderment of our other non-linguistics friends. At least we think we're cool.
<<What's interesting is that I think I remember reading that the lot-cloth split is actually quite old, possibly as old as the Great Vowel Shift itself (which it probably arose out of), and only recently have the distinctions been neutralized by some dialects (such as most British dialects and "cot-caught" merged North Americans).>>
Hmm, that's interesting. It might explain why the lot-cloth split seems to be so pervasive among c-c unmerged Americans.
Lazar, Kirk, thanks for the information and links.
I must be going loopy - repeating over and over again (no-one else present!) "hot dog" "hot dog" "hot dog".. You just don't think about how you say words do you...you just say them. In Edinburgh speak it doesn't come out as [hOt dOg] like it is down south...the vowel is more extended ....closer to "hort dorg" without the R sound.
<<Lazar, Kirk, thanks for the information and links.>>
No prob :)
Lot-cloth????
As far as I can tell, those two o's are the same for me.
Yes, old-fashioned RP has the lot-cloth split, as in "gone off", which would be [gO:n O:f] as opposed to [gQn Qf]. Some regional dialects in the southern half of England apparently do too, but I don't think I've ever noticed hearing it.
However, I'm not sure if "dog" ever got the lengthened vowel in Britain, so "hot dog" might be [hQt dQg] even for people who say [gO:n O:f].
<<Lazar, Kirk, thanks for the information and links.>>
De nada. :-)
<<However, I'm not sure if "dog" ever got the lengthened vowel in Britain, so "hot dog" might be [hQt dQg] even for people who say [gO:n O:f].>>
Yeah, I think I've read that when the lot-cloth split occurs in Britain, it tends to be less extensive than when it occurs in America. I think that raising vowels before velar consonants (as in "dog" and "long") might be a uniquely American thing.
I got the pronunciation discussions mixed up. I meant to put "Lazar, Kirk, thanks for the information and links" in the one about 'multi-' (though you guys may deserve some gratitude here too :-). I'll go ahead and repeat it over there -- not for your sake but just so the people over there won't think I'm an ingrate.
i hate it when i callfor tech support aand some indian lies and says hi my name is ___(amerian name), i usually say bs, hang up, jump on the web and find a tech line that is based in n.america. Maybe Katrinas victims can be our new tech support.
And that has what to do with what?
Wow, amazing set of opinions on a very humble question... Amongst americans, there are so many different types of accents... Americans seem to love european accent..
guys, wake up... Atleast indians have taken the trouble of learning English with more than 800 regional dialects of its own... and trust me, most educated indians have better vocab than americans that i have met...
Substance is not in the accent or language, its in your thought.