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Does language define your identity?
For some people, language is the most important factor when forming their personal identity. For others, it is ancestral origin.
For instance, under one definition, that of ethnic origin, I would be mainly a Spaniard and a Celt.
By the linguistic definition I would be mainly an Anglo-Saxon/English/Germanic.
By a purely cultural definition I would be a Mexican-American.
Is the language you speak the most important self-identification factor for yourself? I'm asking you guys by the way. It's not a rhetorical question.
Yeah, I know. And I can sympathize with them. There are a lot of conflicting associations within my identity.
As I said, my father's side is mainly Welsh, so that in terms of my ancestry, I feel Celtic on my father's side. I don't know my father's family at all, so I don't identify with their sub-culture, but because my mother tounge is English, I feel closer to an Englishman than I do to Welsh-speaking people from Cardiff.
Yeah, that's true. But Wales could sure you use its own parliament, the way Scotland has one.
Wales has a Welsh Assembly, a kind of semi-parliament, as far as I know.
I think culture is far important than language for our identies, unless you experience that you are excluded from the majority society because of your minority language.
I agree totally with Fredrik. For me, my 'identity' has nothing to do with my native language; to be honest though, it doesn't really have much to do with my ancestry or the place in which I live either. Instead, I identify primarily with my 'religion', which is Unitarianism. After that, I identify with other religious groups which are very similar to Unitarians, such as Quakers. Then, I identify with people whom I feel have similar views, lifestyles and experiences to me, regardless of where they live or what language they speak.
« I don't know my father's family at all, so I don't identify with their sub-culture, but because my mother tounge is English, I feel closer to an Englishman than I do to Welsh-speaking people from Cardiff. »
There are actually very very few Welsh-speakers from Cardiff, and those who do would probably speak English most of the time anyway.
I tend to think that the attitude of a lot of anglophones, wich doesn't tend to assiociate tehmselves with the language they speak is pretty much a carcteristic in English-speaking countries, due to the actual position of the english language in the world.
In all times the people have been grouping themselves in relation with the language they speak; For the simple reason that if you don't know the language of a group, you canno't enter into it and be part of it. Your mother language is the one you use everyday and all the time; we often don't realise it until we go in a country in which the language is completly unintelligible.
Our language is the key to our capacity to socialize with the people who can speak it too - If we are in a room with 4 people, and tree of them can't speak the same language, we will socialize with the one who share the same language. the language is also a tool of spreading of the cultural herency of the group, such as songs, poetry, strories, legends, litterature and even religion (most religions had "its" language, religions is though to be the way to expand the influence of a language, and a language help to spread a religion - Arabic with Islam, latin with catholism, etc)
The religion seems to me to be the second identificator. We could say that a language let you enter in a culture and put you in contact with it (without the language one will stay outside of it) while the religion give you the social rules. In modern times, in secular societies, the rules can be given by the "republic" or "nation", even if some other can have been let by former religious influence.
All the so-called "ethnic groups" that are though by some people as being physical/genetic descritions are based on languages; Such terms as "Arabic, Slavic, Latin, Germanic, etc." all refer to linguistic classifications.
The celts for exemples, were just a group of peoples who were speaking a king of similar dialects. being speaking those dialects was joining them together and helped them to shape a sort of cultural unity, because interactions were easier due to linguistical proximity. Even if those celts, were not all of the same origin of central Europe, were the celtic culture came from. In Western Europe a lot of Celts were descendants of non-celts peoples who have been "celtified, and/or mixed with cetls immigrants from central Europe. So saying that the Gauls of "france" were Celts just mean that they were speaking celt and sharing some common features with other celt people - it didn't meant that all look alike or all had the same ancestors. It was basically the same for most groups of peoples such as germanics, latins or slavics. Phisically what can change is the proportion of people with one or another caracteristic - there are generally more dark haired people among the latins than among the germanics - but been dark haired doesn't mean being latin and being germanic doesn't mean being tall/blond/blue eyed. As for slavics, they can be of vary different features, from tall/blond-haired to little brown-eyed and all in-between.
I tend to think that the reason why a lot of Anglosphones don't associate their identity with their language is due the the role of universal language that english is supposed to have in the world.
A lot of people tend to think that english is a language used or at least understood in all the world by everybody. So anglophones lacks the "impermeability" that most of the other languages have inthe world - Because of this linguistic domination of english, english-language based products are sell in most of the world - and so it let non-anglophones people to enter in the anglophones influence. But maybe a lot of anglophones don't realise that the poeple who don't speak english as their first language, even if they can enter a bit the anglo culture, they tend to stay apprt for most of it if they haven't been raised in an anglo culture.
On an other hand, when Anglophones fell in contact with people who don't speak english, or at least not enough to create a real interaction - they often realise that they have a lot in common, sharing the same language. Often I saw Anglophones in Paris, being living in a non-anglophone country, were most creating expat communities, being of diverse look (blond, black, east-asian) and diverse country of origin (US, Canada, Australia, ect), joining themselves in pubs or clubs to create the occaion to speak their language once a week or more and keeping contact with their culture and realise that they share a lot, despite the fact that inside their anglophone country they would tend to groups themselves under other cateogories such as religious, racial or behaviourial communities.
Myself I didn't really realised that I was french until I went two month in the states when I was teenager (my english was close to 0 at that time), surounded by a unitelligible language and curious habits all day long. Theere I've met other francophones and some spaniards in my class - we realised that we had much in common as Europeans, and as peoples of latin (romance-based) cultures.
I'm so sorry. This is gonna sound like a load of bullpoo, so please hang on tight!
Personally, I think cultural identity is a HUGE factor in ones fluency/accent in a language. I will write mainly about the accents in English of immigrants to the United States.
From what I have seen, I find that virtually all people who maintain citizenship/identity to the country of their heritage tend to not speak English with as good an accent as those who build an "American" identity.
For example, I am an American of Japanese/Korean descent. I lived in Japan untill the age of six, and grew up in southern California. I had to learn English (and Spanish) from scratch. Because of circumstances, I let my Japanese identity go. I consider myself AMERICAN of Japanese/Korean descent - not Japanese or Korean living in America. I am now fifteen, and people never detect a Japanese accent in my English. I sound no different from my friends.
My cousins, however, never developed an "American" idenetity. Their parents are strong Japanese nationalists (boohoo), and they do not consider themselves American. Although they were born and raised in the United States unlike me, they have a quite noticable accent when they speak English. (They speak better Japanese than me.)
I see this scenario (or similar ones) occuring all the time with people of so many different kinds of ethnicities and language backgrounds.
Oh, whoops!! The message I just posted has nothing to do with the original topic of this thread.
Sorry!
I think it does for all practical purposes. Of course, everyone has their own approach to answering topics.
--- Brennus
You forgott portuguese Kendra. If you can trace all the way back to amerindian and african, I'm 100% sure you will find a portuguese ancestor. Negação é uma coisa muito feia...
I have read that the people who were in concentration camps and had the less chances to survive were those who were alone. Because of their nationality, they cound not find anybody who spoke their language. They were looking for somebody who could be abble to understand them.
A language is very important in your identity. Do not forget the role of the gesture whix=ch is a part of the language.
In fact we know the language exists because of what we call anticipation. The anticipation is the abbility of thinking what will happen, what will i have to do after.
Leroi Gouran (prehistorian) says, we developped the language because we produced something which would help us to produce something else: the tool.
On prehistory
The tools we use are defined by our environment, an eskimo will use tools he needs to protect him against the cold weather, to fish...He will produce the tools he needs with what he can find. An african does not need the same tools, and of course cannot find the same things.
This has created some different languages.
Our language defines our identity. Why there are many words in french/italian/japanese about the food. Why are there many words for snow in the eskimo language?
Why a baby is abble to learn every phonetic from all over the world before being 6 months old nad why this is different after that?
Why do we all have the accent from our country. A swedish who will hear a norwegian speaking will immediately think "that guy is norwegian", the same with a french and a spanish.....
As a youth, I love music. I listen to a lot of Spanish language music as well, like Mambo, Salsa, Reagaton, etc. But, mainly I listen to Rock music of all kinds, and other pop music which the typical teen listens to. And it's in English. So, I can relate to a lot of British bands, like the Stones, the Clash, the Sex Pistols, the Ramones, and even the Beatles, etc.
So, yes, language plays a huge role in your self identity. I would say it is on equal grounds with your ethnicity and your nationality.
Americans identify with other Americans. But, within American culture, there great internal divisions, based on race or religion. Growing up in some areas, I couldn't walk around a certain neighborhood for fear of getting jumped, jacked, or even shot because of my race. I used to get in fights with blacks all the time, just because i wasn't in their little "group" because of the color of my skin. The same goes for the alienation of people based on religious grounds. Even on linguistic grounds as well. Today, so far, I've come into contact with about ten people who only speak Spanish. I'm sure they do not identify with Uncle Sam, but with the country of their origin.
Just the other day, a peaceful, law abiding citizen, who happened to be Black, parked his car in a Mexican neighborhood to go run an errand. Four Mexican gang members saw him, and one said to the others, "Should we shoot that Ni**er?" They all looked at him, and nonchalantly said, "What the f***", and shot the man to death, in cold blood, for no reason, just because he was in "their" territory.
My elder brother is an ex-gang member, and I know first hand how brutal racial divisions can be in this country.
So, yes, as Fab and Greg point out, language is very important in our relations with others. But ethnicity and nationality are just as powerful.
Examples of language being an important part of a personal identity in the English speaking U.S.:
"Gay" accents
Southern accents in country music (even if the singer is from elsewhere)
By the way, LAA, I have been critical of your discussions in the past, but I have to say that I think this is a good one.
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