Celtic origin of "Abierto"???

LAA   Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:20 am GMT
<<The early name of Spain, “Iberia", is Celtic and is derived from their word "aber", or "open" >>

I couldn't help but notice how similar this is to modern Spanish "abierto". Do you think this is evidence of Celtic origin, or is it of Latin origin?
COLIAN   Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:56 am GMT
MAYBE CAUSE FRENCH IS OUVRE I THINK
Gringo   Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:56 am GMT
<<The early name of Spain, “Iberia", is Celtic and is derived from their word "aber", or "open" >>

The name given by the Greeks to Hispania was IBÊRIKÊ. I never heard that the word derived from Celtic but from Greek.

The Greeks also called Iberians to the people of ancient Georgia, which is know as Caucasian Iberia, and thought they were the same people.
Aldvs   Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:03 am GMT
Another example of "Greek" derived names in Spain.

Hispalis- Greek

Hispania- Latin

España- Spanish
Gringo   Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:41 am GMT
Aldvs You can find interesting information on wikipedia, it seems hispania is also one of the misterious names full of guesses.

English Wikipedia:

The origin of the word Hispania appears to be Punic, the Phoenician language of colonizing Carthage. The etymologist Eric Partridge (Origins) finds it in the pre-Roman name for Seville, Hispalis, which strongly hints of an ancient name for the country of *Hispa, an Iberian or Celtic root whose meaning is now lost[1].

The Catholic Encyclopedia reports, "Some derive it from the Punic word tsepan, 'rabbit,' basing the opinion on the evidence of a coin of Galba, on which Hispania is represented with a rabbit at her feet, and on Strabo, who calls Spain 'the land of rabbits'" [2]. Others attribute a Punic connotation of "dark", "hidden", "lost", or "remote."

One version states that the name comes from the Phoenician word I-shphanim, which means literally "from or about hyraxes" (shphanim is the plural of shaphán, Hyrax syriacus). Lacking a better term, the Phoenicians used that word for rabbits, an unknown animal for them but very common in the peninsula. Another interpretation of the same term would be Hi-shphanim, "Rabbits' Island" (or "Hyraxes' Island").

None of these etymologies is truly satisfactory.

Spanish wikipedia:

Se sabe que los fenicios y los cartagineses llamaron a la Península con el nombre de Span o Spania, con el significado de oculto (país escondido y remoto). Existe otra versión de que el nombre proviene del término fenicio I-shphanim que literalmente significa: 'de damanes', (shphanim, es la forma plural de shaphán, 'damán', Hyrax syriacus) que fue con este vocablo con el que los fenicios decidieron, a falta de un nombre mejor, denominar al conejo, Oryctolagus cuniculus, animal poco conocido por ellos y que abundaba en extremo en la península. Otra versión de esta misma etimología sería Hi-shphanim, 'Isla de conejos' (o, de nuevo literalmente, damanes). Por otra parte no era el único bicho que llamaba la atención por su abundancia. Los griegos llamaron a la Península Ophioússa que significa 'tierra de serpientes', y lo cambiaron por Iberia, pues iber era una palabra que escuchaban constantemente entre los habitantes de la península. Es un término geográfico pero no se le puede asignar en concreto al río Ebro pues se encontraba esta palabra también por toda la Andalucía actual. Algunos lingüistas piensan que significaba simplemete río. En realidad no se sabe bien.
Gringo   Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:46 am GMT
Correction:
*Aldvs, you can find interesting information on Wikipedia. It seems Hispania is also one of the mysterious names full of guesses.
Guest   Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:06 am GMT
1601, from L. Iberia, ancient name of the Spanish peninsula, from Gk. Iberes "Celtic people of Spain;" also the name given to an Asiatic people near the Caucasus. Of unknown origin, but the word as applied in Spain is believed to be related to the River Ebro. The earliest Eng. reference is to the Caucasians; in ref. to Spain and Portugal it dates from 1618.
fab   Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:13 pm GMT
some words in differents sub-groups of indo-European languages can seem similar, especially between celtic and latin language.
Xatufan   Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:16 pm GMT
Abierto > Apertus
Tiffany   Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:14 am GMT
Latin I think, as cited above. Open is aperto in Italian.

The door is open - En
La porta è aperta - It
La puerta es abierta - Sp

I guessed in Spanish, please correct me if I am wrong. I was actually wondering if it took "estar" instead of "ser" - perhaps "estar" because it is something temporary...
LAA   Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:52 am GMT
Yes. The Ser form of "to be" applies to something permanent. "I am tall." You are always going to be tall, or short, or whatever you are. So you would say, "soy alto". If it was temporary, as in, "I am sad", you would say, "Estoy triste."
Sometimes, Spanish grammar really sucks. But once you get the hang of it, it simplifies things.
Tiffany   Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:47 am GMT
No such problems in Italian. "Essere" and "stare" are much easier than "ser" and "estar" - and I'm not sure how they simplify anything! Always made it just that much harder for me :) I swear I used to be better at Spanish though. Then Italian came and took that all over.
LAA - Juaquin en la caja!   Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:08 am GMT
Yeah, and believe it or not, in a lot of ways, Italian is no harder for me to pronounce, than Spanish. I suppose it's because of the singing intonation in Italian, which slows the pace of language up a bit, and because of the close simililarities w/ Spanish.

Italian is so similar to Spanish in some ways, that it is easy to get things mixed up between the two of them if you speak both. I only know a little bit of Italian, but today, I caught myself ordering, "Dos tacos dorados sin lechuga, pero mas formaggio." lol

Or I have to remind myself to pronounce the "l" sound in "pollo" and "bella", in It., which as you know, in Es., makes a "y" sound.
Tiffany Altieri   Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:05 pm GMT
LAA,
I was not talking about pronunciation. My point was that "essere" and "stare" are used in a different pattern in Italian than in Spanish.

If you search around antimoon, I have documented the difficulties I had transitioning from Spanish to Italian. And yes, it was because they were so similar on the surface. In my experience, the similarities are what will hold you back - because you start expecting everything to be similar, when in reality they are not. There are key differences you must learn.

<<Or I have to remind myself to pronounce the "l" sound in "pollo" and "bella", in It., which as you know, in Es., makes a "y" sound.>>

Not only must you learn to make the "l" sound, you must learn to make a double l sound. Doubled consonants in Italian, unlike English, mean something and are pronounced differently.