how does PORTUGUESE [pt] sound to you?
>>Young people do not pronounce different from their parents unless they are still learning to speak.<<
Language is not static, and as individuals tend to become rather fixed in their overall speech patterns by the time they are an adult, it should not be surprising that older individuals would be more likely to have more conservative forms than younger individuals. For instance, around here one is probably more likely to hear the pronunciation of /tr/ and /dr/ as [tr\] and [dr\] from middle-aged individuals here, who will use such pronunciations on occasion, than younger ones, who practically universally use [tSr\] and [dZr\] for /tr/ and /dr/.
««For instance, around here one is probably more likely to hear the pronunciation of /tr/ and /dr/ as [tr\] and [dr\] from middle-aged individuals here, who will use such pronunciations on occasion, than younger ones, who practically universally use [tSr\] and [dZr\] for /tr/ and /dr/. »»
When that happens, both pronunciations become used at the same time for a long time. The one preferred becomes fashion and, nowadays, is heard in the local media, more quickly in programs for young people.
In the case of the given examples:
For the word “Ouro”, ou = /ow/ there is an alternative pronunciation: “Oiro” oi = /oj/.
To pronounce “oro” it would sound like /ɔ/ òro which is not spoken in Lisbon that would be another word : [I ] pray.
In “Caixa” the pronunciation is more subtle, you would hardly notice if the [i] is there or not when you speak as “ai” /aj/ is a diphthong. But "caixa " pronounced as “caxa” (caixa ['kaSa]) is spoken in Portugal and it is not something new or spoken just by young people.
Young people do not speak faster everybody normally speaks fast compared to Brazilians. It is mostly Brazilians who say Portuguese speak fast, Portuguese do not think they speak fast, only that Brazilians speak slowly ;)
ouro /'oru/ is Standard Lisbon Portugese
Disk-Meia9 Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:23 pm GMT
''['oru] is not so common, at least I never heard it pronounced that way. ''
Then you really don't know zip on Brazilian pronunciation.
[ou] is used only in voltar [vou'ta(h)], solto ['soutu].
Syllable-final l is not always pronounced like put plain "u" in Brazilian portuguese, often it´s still pronounced like "dark l" = ɫ of European portuguese.
For me European Portuguese sounds like a mix of Spanish, French and Polish/Russian (rather the former because of characteristic lisp) and Brazilian Portuguese like a mix of Italian, French, Russian and Spanish, but I think that there is no language which sounds exactly like Portuguese both European and Brazilian one. Its sound is just very specific.
But Iberian portuguese or 'slum' portuguese (for lack of better term) definitely impairs intelligibility.
>if it is intelligible is because you have slum ears and speak slum spanish.
Iberian
There is no such thing as a iberian Portuguese you idiot. Iberians died out a long time ago and I doubt they ever spoke Portuguese.
Portuguese sounds a lot like a combination of Spanish and French.
Joey
I did not say anything about the Iberians, or Iberian Portuguese,
I answered the idiot that called Iberian Portuguese 'slum' portuguese. As Portuguese and Spanish live in the Iberian peninsula they are Iberians just like they are Europeans. Iberian Portuguese is one way of naming the European version.
''Syllable-final l is not always pronounced like put plain "u" in Brazilian portuguese, often it´s still pronounced like "dark l" = ɫ of European portuguese. ''
Only by some old speakers in Rio Grande do Sul close to Urugayan border
Iberian
You have posted this remark in three threads and it´s difficult to see who you are referring to. I'll take the name calling back though.
Don't forget that Galician is a dialect of Portuguese, that means there are two types of Portuguese in the Iberian Peninsula, so when referring to Iberian Portuguese it can get confusing to which type of Portuguese you are talking about, from Portugal or Spain.
Mind you there is a clear difference between the two.
This is the strangest comment I heard. I do not know how it can get confusing if the Portuguese spoken in Galiza is called Galician. Is it also confusing about what type of Portuguese is spoken when someone taks about European Portuguese or do you also ask if it is from Galicia or from Portugal? Galicia and Portugal are both in Europe and Iberian Peninsula, so I guess it must be as confusing to say European Portuguese as it is to say Iberian Portuguese.
In English, one says CONTINENTAL PORTUGUESE (vs BRAZILIAN PORTUGUESE) not
IBERIAN, EUROPEAN or LUSITANIAN PORTUGUESE, but CONTINENTAL.
Meijse
(In English, one says CONTINENTAL PORTUGUESE (vs BRAZILIAN PORTUGUESE) not
IBERIAN, EUROPEAN or LUSITANIAN PORTUGUESE, but CONTINENTAL.)
Thanks for clearing that up or should I say danke wel.