How does Afrikaans grammar compare to English grammar

Aquatar   Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:35 pm GMT
We often hear how simple basic English grammar is compared to other European languages, in terms of gender, verb forms, cases, adjective endings etc. But I have heard that Afrikaans is even more straightforward. I was wondering how the two languages compare in this respect.
Sander   Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:58 pm GMT
Afrikaans has a lot in common with Dutch, but certainly not in a grammatical aspect. The main difficulties with Afrikaans lie in pronounciation with I find is more melodical and fluent compared to (standard) Dutch.

Afrikaans has no irregular verbs and verbs do not conjugate differently depending on the subjects.

So where in Dutch one would say; "Ik loop" (I walk) and "Ik liep" (I walked) in Afrikaans this would be "Ek loop" and "Ek het geloop".

The verb "to be" in Dutch:

Ik ben (I am)
Jij bent (You are)
Hij is (He is)
Wij zijn (We are)
Jullie zijn (You are)
Zij zijn (They are)

and in Afrikaans:

Ek is (I am)
Jy is (You are)
Hy is (He is)
Ons is (We are)
Julle is (You are)
Hulle is (They are)
Aquatar   Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:14 pm GMT
Thanks Sander

So now I am curious as to how this change came about, as I understand Afrikaans has basically developed from Dutch.

Also (going from your example), does Afrikaans tend to use the present perfect and not the simple past.

And what about Dutch. Does it form the past tense in a more similar way to English or German i.e. tending to mainly use the present perfect like German, or more a combination of the simple past and present perfect like English?
Aldo   Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:29 pm GMT
<<Jij bent (You are) >>

Is this singular ?...

<<Jullie zijn (You are) >>

and this plural ?

I remember long time ago I downloaded one of those courses on internet but alone I didn't go too far.

<<Ek is (I am)
Jy is (You are)
Hy is (He is)
Ons is (We are)
Julle is (You are)
Hulle is (They are) >>

Interesting. What about past and future ?
Sander   Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:51 pm GMT
>> So now I am curious as to how this change came about, as I understand Afrikaans has basically developed from Dutch. <<

Probably because of a number of reasons, the Afrikaners were very much cutt of from the bulk of the Dutch speakers. The were also starting from scratch and I find it understandable that proper speech wasn't a priority.

Also, Afrikaans is very much based on Hollandic dialects which also have limited variety in irregular verbs:
(to have in Amsterdam city dialect)
Ek heb
Jij heb
Hij heb
Wij hebbe
Jullie hebbe
Sij hebbe

Also, mass education in the Netherlands wouldn't start for another 100 years from the time the Dutch colonists left for South Africa, good education was only for the wealthier citizens, and they didn't leave for the colonies.

>.And what about Dutch. Does it form the past tense in a more similar way to English or German i.e. tending to mainly use the present perfect like German, or more a combination of the simple past and present perfect like English?<<

Dutch has a lot more irregular verbs than English and German combined, thus whenever we get the chance we use an irregular past tense. Otherwise it's mostly like German.
Joey   Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:46 pm GMT
Grammatically speaking Afrikaans must be one of the easiest languages around. The fact that it is a very recent language helps.
The golden rule for pas tens is 'het ge...'

Hy het geloop (He walked)past

Hy loop (His walking)present

Hy gaan loop (His going to walk)future

All you have to do is add 'het ge...' to the verb and it's past tense and 'gaan' infront of the verb and it's futer sense.It's a snap.

Another example is what Sanders posted

Ik ben (I am)
Jij bent (You are)
Hij is (He is)
Wij zijn (We are)
Jullie zijn (You are)
Zij zijn (They are)

See how in Dutch there is a 'ben' and 'zijn'. In Afrikaans only uses 'is'.
Much simpler even then English.
Joey   Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:53 pm GMT
(I remember long time ago I downloaded one of those courses on internet but alone I didn't go too far.

<<Ek is (I am)
Jy is (You are)
Hy is (He is)
Ons is (We are)
Julle is (You are)
Hulle is (They are))

Past sense

Ek was (I am)
Jy was (You are)
Hy was (He is)
Ons was (We are)
Julle was (You are)
Hulle was (They are)

Future sense

Ek sal (I am)
Jy sal (You are)
Hy sal (He is)
Ons sal (We are)
Julle sal (You are)
Hulle sal (They are)

Were 'was' pronounced 'vas' means was in English.
'Sal' means will/shall
zxczxc   Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:46 pm GMT
Doesn't Swedish do something very similar with verbs too?
Brendon   Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:00 pm GMT
Afrikaans vs Dutch and is similar to Vernacular Brazilian Portuguese (spoken by 2/3 of Brazilian Population, low class people) vs Standard Portuguese are in similar relationship:

to be

Standard Portuguese:

eu sou /I am/
tu és /you are/
ele é /he is/

nós somos /we are/
vós sois /you[pl] are/
eles são /there are/


Vernacular Brazilian Portuguese:

eu sô /I am/
tu é /you are/
ele é /he is/

nóis é /we are/
cêis é /you[pl] are/
eles é /there are/
Brendon   Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:01 pm GMT
Afrikaans vs Dutch is similar to Vernacular Brazilian Portuguese (spoken by 2/3 of Brazilian Population, low class people) vs Standard Portuguese; similar relationship:

to be

Standard Portuguese:

eu sou /I am/
tu és /you are/
ele é /he is/

nós somos /we are/
vós sois /you[pl] are/
eles são /they are/


Vernacular Brazilian Portuguese:

eu sô /I am/
tu é /you are/
ele é /he is/

nóis é /we are/
cêis é /you[pl] are/
eles é /they are/
Sander   Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:28 pm GMT
>>Afrikaans vs Dutch is similar to Vernacular Brazilian Portuguese (spoken by 2/3 of Brazilian Population, low class people) vs Standard Portuguese; similar relationship: <<

Ridiculous.
Arthur   Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:50 pm GMT
@Sander,

I don't think that this comparison is so ridiculous, Sander. Brazilian Portuguese is undergoing the very same process that Afrikaans was suffering during a couple of centuries. Perhaps the speed and the spreading is different, and the grammatical areas too, but I would look more carefully what is (really sadly) happening to the Portuguese in Brazil. Or what do you mean with your judgement of the above statement being ridiculous?

@zxczxc,

Yes, all the Scandinavian languages, Dk, No, Se, have simplified quite a lot their verbal systems, in a resulting unique form for all the six persons.
Ex.
Swedish "spela"(play)
Jag spelar
Du spelar
Han/hun spelar
Vi spelar
Ni spelar
De spelar
Sander   Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:02 pm GMT
It is ridiculous because the assumption is made that the linguistic evolution Afrikaans was caused by low lifes.
Arthur   Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:07 pm GMT
Ach so!!!... das meintest Du.
But, now that you mention it, I don't know what caused it in fact. I assume the cause being the isolation from the mother tongue... can you enlight me a bit alstublief? (seriously)
Sander   Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:51 pm GMT
Yes, isolation, lack of education, dialectal speech only ... also, when making contact with the natives using complex grammar and inflection is a burden ... "you give me food?" probably works much better and faster than "Excuse my dear sire, but could I have some of your time you see my family is starving and I was wondering if we could receive some of your food?"