A concept of time
Referring to my example:
Ex3: "Yesterday we went to a department store. *We have bought many things."
Geoff_One said:
>>Solution - switch the sentences around.
We have bought many things. Yesterday we went to a department store. <<
My reply: OK, thank you.
Engtense, Thanks also . Maybe I have explained it somewhat clearly.
Geoff_One wrote:
>>For example - I want to consider the time period between the end of last week and now (herein after called time period ABCD). During time period ABCD, I have swum at the beach many times. <<
My reply: I guess this is the way how the old grammars explain the time span between the end of last week and now. I clearly said it has no name, and old grammars would put in a name, so that the time is still mentionable.
I have to use a few sentences to realize the time span:
Ex: "Last week we went to a new department store. We bought many things. We have recommended it to Ms B."
== Present Perfect is used to say things finished between Last Week and Now.
And now with the time mentioned, you could still depend on one-sentence basis, e.g.:
>>During time period ABCD, I have swum at the beach many times.<<
Is this a good way to explain the time span I have pointed out? I cannot here make the final judgment. We will reap what we have sowed.
Geoff_One,
I guess you still remember the nearby link "Disputed English grammar", in which I pointed out old English has avoided to talk about the Past Family, a group of time adverbials containing the adjective 'past': in the past, in the past year, for the past two years, over the past three months, etc. You cannot find grammars or websites displaying these past time adverbials. They hide away these past time adverbials so as to support the rule that Present Perfect doesn't stay with past time adverbials:
Ex: *They have worked here last week.
== It should have been in Simple Past.
The story didn't end there.
Because of the hiding-away, grammars don't even define to us the term "past time adverbial". Defining it is inviting students to point out the Past Family they are hiding away. Grammars have known better. I mean no grammar books or websites whatsoever would define Past Time Adverbial. A badness is kept to cover another badness. The funny thing is, we thought we understood how to define past time adverbial.
You think I must be crazy, claiming no books or websites will define "past time adverbials". I am not. I cannot lie to you because the searching engine is next door to you.
A concealment after another concealment -- this is what they have reaped from what they sowed.
In my website I have defined what is Definite Past Time Adverbial. Your example:
>>During time period ABCD, I have swum at the beach many times.<<
is actually violating the 'golden rule' that Present Perfect doesn't stay with past time adverbial. If we stop using ABCD, we will know:
Ex: During the past few days, I have swum at the beach many times.
The consequence? The 'golden rule' have been actually designed to differentiate Simple Past from Present Perfect: "Simple Past can, and Present Perfect cannot, stay with past time adverbials". The rule has now gone. People cannot no longer tell the difference between the two tenses.
What then is difference between Simple Past and Present Perfect, may I ask?
Engtense, Out of interest, and it maybe of some help here, what
is your native langauge and what experience do you have with other languages apart from English?
Engtense,
Another Example:
During the past three months, I have practiced juggling many times.
If I say this to a group of people, it invites the question from them - Can you give us a demonstration? All those individual practices during the past three months can readily consolidate and manifest themselves into a juggling display in the present. The juggling display in the present would not be possible if any of the individual practices had been missed.
As I said before, I had to look up the definitions of the grammatical terms simple past and present perfect. However, In my recent studies of Spanish (Or duk gun Saibawn ah wa. Or jung yee sick gong Saibawn ah wa) , I have come across similar types of terms. It is only because of these studies that I have been able to make attempts to answer your questions. I have a better understanding of how grammatical terms apply to Spanish than to English. Just as you have a better understanding than I do, of of how grammatical terms apply to English . Why don't you study Spanish to get another viewpoint of the tenses? After all, Spanish is the world's only other grand international language and as I understand it, they have Spanish language programs on national TV in China. BTW, you don't have to answer the question, as it is virtually a rhetorical question.
>>Another Example:
(Ex:) During the past three months, I have practiced juggling many times.
If I say this to a group of people, it invites the question from them - Can you give us a demonstration?<<
My reply: As I say in my website, if on one-sentence basis, as we claim we are discussing the tense, we are actually discussing the sentence. For tenses are used to tell the time relation between sentences, we cannot see this relation at all on one-sentence basis. Old grammars have explained wrongly from the beginning. You may see the confusions I point out in the front page of
www.englishtense.com
As for your example, do the people ask you to do a demonstration because of the tense? I don't think so. Rather, it is because of the sentence. Even if you use Simple Past in the sentence, people will still ask you for demonstration.
I recognize you have picked up the right tense in your example. But in Asia, many learners use Simple Past for the Past Family, because they believe in the rule that Simple Past can, and Present Perfect cannot, stay with past time adverbials. If you search for "during the past three months", you will see some people still use Simple Past for it. In what way do you prove Present Perfect is correct in your example? Any reason or proof from grammars at all?
Engtense,
What assumptions have you made about myself regarding languages?
What language do I like to speak and why?
You know better than I do.
I can't understand what the big deal is, engtense, or what you're baiting Geoff about.
Who said it is a big deal?
We just hide away past time adverbials for Present Perfect tense and then tell the students the tense doesn't stay with past time adverbials. It is not a big deal at all.