Is the present perfect being shown the door?

M56   Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:53 am GMT
Over time, the present perfect has increased in use over the preterite in German, French and some other languages to a position where it now clearly dominates. In English too, the present perfect increased in use over the preterite from the days of Old English, through Middle English and up to the beginning of the Modern English period. But what about today? Which form dominates in English? Some would say that the present perfect is on the wane or even redundant in contemporary English. Would you agree with those people?
j   Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:49 pm GMT
'Some would say that the present perfect is on the wane or even redundant in contemporary English.'

I heard that it's right about American English, not British.
Pash   Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:58 pm GMT
Where did you hear it?
Guest   Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:31 pm GMT
It's still used a great deal in both BE and AE, although it's true there are instances where BE would use the present perfect and AE the simple past, such as 'Have you eaten yet? (BE) as opposed to Did you eat yet? (AE)
j   Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:52 pm GMT
Exactly. In everyday speech a simple question sounds rather 'Did you? (eat, read, bye, etc) than 'Have you?'.So does an answer: 'Yes, I did'.
Guest   Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:25 pm GMT
Both structures sound right. They are implying the same meaning.
Guest   Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:29 pm GMT
I disagree that Americans do not say "Have you eaten yet?". I am an American, and I have said and heard that many times, so I'm not sure where this idea that we don't say it comes from.

Here is how I see it... If it were still within the time in which I expect they would have eaten, I would say "Have you eaten yet?", but if that time has passed, I would say "Did you eat?'
Lazar   Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:44 pm GMT
I agree with Guest above. Things that you read often imply that Americans always use Simple Past in those situations, whereas there are lots of Americans who tend to use Present Perfect there. I think my preference would be for the Present Perfect, eg "Have you eaten yet?", "I've lost my key", etc. I'd say that the alternative forms using the Simple Past are optional, but not universal, in American English.
Guest   Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:52 am GMT
Lazar, tell this thing to those ESL authors who separate those usages as universal not as optional. In almost all books designed for ESL students, they are listed as British and American usages respectively. Students are forced to learn to make a distinction between them and hence the aforementioned idea came from.
j   Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:19 am GMT
"American and British English differences"
From Wikipedia
........
Use of tenses

* BrE uses the present perfect tense to talk about an event in the recent past and with the words already, just and yet. In American usage, these meanings can be expressed with the present perfect (to express a fact) or the simple past (to imply an expectation). This American style has become widespread only in the past 20 to 30 years; the "British" style is still in common use as well.
o "Have you done your homework yet?" / "Did you do your homework yet?"
o "I've just got home." / "I just got home."
o "I've already eaten." / "I already ate."

(Recently the American use of just with simple past has made inroads into BrE, most visibly in advertising slogans and headlines such as "Cable broadband just got faster".)
j   Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:13 pm GMT
Reading contemporary books both British and American one can see immediately , that in the British book there is Present Perfect used more often, than in the American one
Rene   Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:36 pm GMT
I would say
"Have you done your homework yet?"
"I just got home"
"I already ate."

and I'm American, so what you are saying makes sense. The others sound right to and I might say them (who knows what'll come out of my mouth) but not often. One exception is "I've just got home" that sounds totally wacked out to me. I'd say "I've just gotten home."
12HL   Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:07 pm GMT
There are only two tenses in English: past and present.

If you say "have+past participle," that's past tense.
Calliope   Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:26 pm GMT
12HA, where on earth have you got (or did you get, if you prefer) your grammatical knowledge..?!
Calliope   Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:28 pm GMT
12HL, whatever. Same person, wrong thread.