Spoken Standard?

Bella   Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:28 am GMT
When Latin was spoken by the masses, it was distinguished from the literary form. Is it the same with Standard English? Is there a spoken form of Standard English that can be distinguished from the literary/written form? If so, can anyone give examples of the spoken Standard form and tell us how it differs from the written form?
02IR   Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:36 am GMT
There is quite simply no such thing as "spoken Standard English."
02IE   Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:57 am GMT
Nor for that matter was there ever a spoken standard of Latin.
Pash   Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:47 am GMT
<There is quite simply no such thing as "spoken Standard English." >

Then why do so many people say "I speak Standard English"?

<Nor for that matter was there ever a spoken standard of Latin. >

I thought there was something called "vernacular Latin".
Uriel   Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:54 am GMT
I think the difference between spoken and literary English is minor, and is usually characterized better as informal vs formal English, rather than standard vs literary. People's individual speaking habits vary, of course, but informal speech might involve more slang or particular dialectical features, more contractions (although I personally don't really consider contractions informal as such, but some people do). However, there would be no one "standard" for people's ordinary speech -- some people naturally eschew any slang or regional dialect, while others use it mainly for emphasis, and still others use nothing but.

There is also the concept of standard vs non-standard English, in which small regional dialectical variants are considered to not be mainstream English, while the dialect of the majority is considered to be the "standard", and would be the variety most likely to be acceptable in formal literature. But in that case, speakers of the mainstream dialect would speak something identical to their literature. I guess that's a slightly different issue.
02IV   Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:16 pm GMT
"Then why do so many people say 'I speak Standard English'?"

Because they have no real idea what they're talking about.

If five different people state "I speak Standard English" - one in Chicago, one in Vancouver, one in Wellington, one in Mumbai and one in York - which one is the "Standard English" speaker?

I suspect people simply say this to imply that their speech follows the "rules" of so-called "Standard English" grammar.

"I thought there was something called 'vernacular Latin'."

Certainly. But there was nothing standard about it. The forensic proof for that is the range of Romance languages which descended from it.
M56   Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:51 pm GMT
<If five different people state "I speak Standard English" - one in Chicago, one in Vancouver, one in Wellington, one in Mumbai and one in York - which one is the "Standard English" speaker? >

Maybe all of them. We do have:

Standard American English
Standard Canadian English
Standard Australian English
Standard British English

and:

Standard Indian English, etc.
you know?
M56   Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:52 pm GMT
<Certainly. But there was nothing standard about it. >

I don't think anyone, apart from you, mentioned a Standard spoken Latin forom.
M56   Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:25 pm GMT
Reposted from above,ex-typo:

<Certainly. But there was nothing standard about it. >

I don't think anyone, apart from you, mentioned a Standard spoken Latin form.
02IA   Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:55 pm GMT
"Maybe all of them. We do have:

Standard American English
Standard Canadian English
Standard Australian English
Standard British English

and:

Standard Indian English, etc.
you know?"

All "useful fictions." Useful in terms of the written language and language instruction.

But I have never in my life met anyone who actually speaks "Standard British English." Have you?

Billy Connolly? The Queen? Tony Blair? David Beckham? Jade Goody?

"I don't think anyone, apart from you, mentioned a Standard spoken Latin form."

And?
Uriel   Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:58 am GMT
I think plenty of people speak what you might (by that definition) call standard American, standard Canadian, or standard Australian, though, since those varieties tend to have fewer dialectical variations than the UK.