And how about "admiral" and "admirable"? I usually pronounce these ["{d.mr\5=] and ["{d.mr\@.b5=], which are the only instances of a syllable-initial [nasal + consonant] in my speech.
"Literature"
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Am I reading your transcription correctly in saying that your 'admiral' has only two syllables? That sounds very strange to me. As you mentioned, nasals are generally not followed by other consonants in English. Just for the record, I have:
admiral ["{?d.m@`o]
admirable ["{?d.mIr\@bo]
(Notice the pre-glottalization of the d. I just figured this out a few days ago!)
admiral ["{?d.m@`o]
admirable ["{?d.mIr\@bo]
(Notice the pre-glottalization of the d. I just figured this out a few days ago!)
<<Am I reading your transcription correctly in saying that your 'admiral' has only two syllables?>>
Yes. I guess in this case, my pattern of schwa reduction can trump the rule about a syllable-initial nasal + consonant. (I noticed this oddity maybe a year or so ago, and I checked in some dictionaries to see if this was just a weird idiosyncratic thing. Several of them, like m-w.com, list the 2-syllable version as optional.)
Yes. I guess in this case, my pattern of schwa reduction can trump the rule about a syllable-initial nasal + consonant. (I noticed this oddity maybe a year or so ago, and I checked in some dictionaries to see if this was just a weird idiosyncratic thing. Several of them, like m-w.com, list the 2-syllable version as optional.)
I do the same.
/"{d.mrl=/
/"{d.mr@.bl=/
Just like Lazar's pronunciation.
/"{d.mrl=/
/"{d.mr@.bl=/
Just like Lazar's pronunciation.
It is strange that Jim is becoming more and more Lazar's yes sir nowadays. Though he has been himself a separate entity on language teaching and solving ESL's porblems for years on the forum. ;)
I'm from New York.
I say "lidderacher". But I like when people say "lichachoor" in the movies.
In words like "general" "memory" "federal" and "admirable" I have the impression that the shwa before the r can be freely deleted (that is, the r can be either syllabic or not) -- but I think the normal way for me to pronounce them is:
jen-rel 2 syll (except in the Gilbert and Sullivan song)
mem-er-ree 3 syll (except in the Andrew Lloyd Weber song)
fed-er-ral 3 syll (fed-ral OK too)
ad-mra-bll 3 syll (yes, it's weird, "mra" -- ad-mer-ra-bll is OK too)
It seems that in fast speech the distinction is no longer audible in any case.
I do insist that the r remain syllabic before a morpheme boundary:
pattering 3 syll
lumbering 3 syll
wandering 3 syll
so too with other letters:
glistening 3 syll
curdling 3 syll
troubling 3 syll
etc.
patt'ring, lumb'ring, wand'ring, glist'ning, curd'ling, and troub'ling seem to me characteristic of poetry:
"Against the wrackful siege of batt'ring days".
I say "lidderacher". But I like when people say "lichachoor" in the movies.
In words like "general" "memory" "federal" and "admirable" I have the impression that the shwa before the r can be freely deleted (that is, the r can be either syllabic or not) -- but I think the normal way for me to pronounce them is:
jen-rel 2 syll (except in the Gilbert and Sullivan song)
mem-er-ree 3 syll (except in the Andrew Lloyd Weber song)
fed-er-ral 3 syll (fed-ral OK too)
ad-mra-bll 3 syll (yes, it's weird, "mra" -- ad-mer-ra-bll is OK too)
It seems that in fast speech the distinction is no longer audible in any case.
I do insist that the r remain syllabic before a morpheme boundary:
pattering 3 syll
lumbering 3 syll
wandering 3 syll
so too with other letters:
glistening 3 syll
curdling 3 syll
troubling 3 syll
etc.
patt'ring, lumb'ring, wand'ring, glist'ning, curd'ling, and troub'ling seem to me characteristic of poetry:
"Against the wrackful siege of batt'ring days".
<<patt'ring, lumb'ring, wand'ring, glist'ning, curd'ling, and troub'ling seem to me characteristic of poetry: >>
I have pattering (3 syllables), lumbering (3 or 2), wandering (3 or 2), glistening (2 or 3), curdling (3), troubling (3 if used as a predicate adjective, eg. "This problem is troubling." But 2 if used as a transitive verb, eg. "This problem is troubling me." (I never noticed that alternation before). I put the most common variation for me first.
I have pattering (3 syllables), lumbering (3 or 2), wandering (3 or 2), glistening (2 or 3), curdling (3), troubling (3 if used as a predicate adjective, eg. "This problem is troubling." But 2 if used as a transitive verb, eg. "This problem is troubling me." (I never noticed that alternation before). I put the most common variation for me first.
You would find it strange if you could see how much Lazar's paying me for the service.
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