Syllables in "three".

Stephen W.   Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:36 pm GMT
For someone reason, my chorus teacher was telling us that when reading the notes, to sing "one, two and tee four" rather than "three four" claiming that reason was that "three" has two syllables. What's up with that? Why does he think that "three" has two syllables when it clearly only has one?
Lazar   Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:39 pm GMT
That's weird. "Three" ["Tr\Ii] is unquestionably monosyllabic for me. I've never heard of anyone using two syllables there.
Guest   Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:45 pm GMT
I have a slight but unavoidable alveolar tap for the "r" after "th" in "three" and other "thr" words. So it's possible he avoids this by forcing a schwa in between the two consonants.
Al Z.   Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:23 am GMT
I have elision of the /r\/ in the "thr" cluster of certain "thr" words. I have:

"throw" /T7U/
"threw/through" /Tu/
"throat" /T7Ut/
"throne" /T7Un/

But:

"three" /Tr\i/
"thrash" /Tr\{S/
"thread" /Tr\Ed/
"throttle" /Tr\At@l/
Skippy   Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:33 pm GMT
The problem with /r/ in English is that it's retroflex, and EXTREMELY so in American and even worse (or better, if you like) in the South. Retroflex /r/ is typically syllabic (meaning it's attached to an /o/ or /e/ when it follows the vowel). However, when /r/ follows consonants, it's non-syllabic, so your choir director is just trying to get ya'll to avoid sounding too Southern or American or something (the same reason choir directors have to force their students to keep their lips rounded when singing /i/ etc.)
Lazar   Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:48 pm GMT
<<so your choir director is just trying to get ya'll to avoid sounding too Southern or American or something>>

"One, two, tee, four" doesn't sound specifically non-Southern or non-American, it just sounds nonsensical. ;-)

<<(the same reason choir directors have to force their students to keep their lips rounded when singing /i/ etc.)>>

They do? So [i] becomes [y]?
Travis   Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:10 am GMT
>><<so your choir director is just trying to get ya'll to avoid sounding too Southern or American or something>>

"One, two, tee, four" doesn't sound specifically non-Southern or non-American, it just sounds nonsensical. ;-)

<<(the same reason choir directors have to force their students to keep their lips rounded when singing /i/ etc.)>>

They do? So [i] becomes [y]? <<

Well, such kinds of individuals seem to potentially really mess with one's speech, to say the least... For instance, I know this one girl here, who for some reason has *gained* yods which the dialect here definitely does not have (yes, she says "stupid" as ["stSju:pI:d]) and has likewise *lost* the complete Mary-merry-marry merger that is ubiquitous here. Apparently such is probably from her exposure to a Mid-Atlantic-type stage accent due to the long period of time in which she was involved in acting in theater (no, not "theatre").
Skippy   Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:31 am GMT
Lazar-

Choir directors try to get their students to sing /i/ with rounded lips because Americans tend to over-spread the /i/ sound. Typically, about half the choir won't know what they're doing (even though it sounds simple enough) so w/ half the choir singing /y/ and half singing /i/ it'll sound normal.

lol ever seen Waiting for Guffman? The choir director asks half of them to say "nothing ever happens in Blaine" while the other half is to sing "nothing ever happens in Blay" so the /n/ doesn't get too emphasized...

Choir directors are weird... but...I trust that they know what they're doing...
Lazar   Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:37 am GMT
So in order to slightly modify a sound, you have part of the choir sing it normally, and part of the choir sing it in a crazy way? Interesting idea. ;-)
Andy   Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:40 pm GMT
There's a guy with a microphone at our local darts competitions (in England) who over-stresses and stretches out his syllables. So he says things like "Geoff needs therr-ree huuuunnnnn-dreddd" when Geoff actually needs 300. He doesn't say it too often because we can all read the score board (and, by the time he's finished saying it, Geoff has finished).

He would've got beaten up at our school for talking like that.
Guest   Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:58 am GMT
I'd say "three" is definitely one syllable. It's "three", not "ther-ee". But your choir director may have been justified in banning that pronunciation. If he wants everyone to be in rhythmic synchrony, it might simplify matters to remove prolongable consonants in the onset of the syllable. "r" is such a consonant; it makes the word take longer to say.