"bull" and "dull"

Al Z.   Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:23 am GMT
I'm American and these clearly rhyme for me /bUl/ and /dUl/, but the dictionary says that they're not supposed to rhyme. The dictionary's got the "ull" and "ul" words divided up into /Ul/ and /Vl/. What is the distribution of the two sequences? Is it at all predictable? I only have /Ul/.
Buddhaheart   Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:18 am GMT
No, “bull" (/bUl/) and "dull" (/dVl/ or /d@l/) don’t rhyme for me in my dialect.
Sarcastic Northwesterner   Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:48 pm GMT
Nope, they don't rhyme at all. I've never heard the [dUl] pronunciation before. I have heard "dull" pronounced as "dole" (and "bull" as "bole"--I think?) before, however, but that to my ears almost immediately identifies the speaker as someone from the Southwest (if they have some other features as well.)

However -ul/-ull words are strange in my dialect. I pronounce "dull" as [dVl]. However, other words with ul/ull such as "culture", "difficult", and "gulf" have [Al], [ol], and [Al], respectively.
Lazar   Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:51 pm GMT
I'm American, and "bull" /"bUl/ and "dull" /"dVl/ don't rhyme for me.

As far as the distribution goes, basically, /Ul/ is used after labial consonants (except /m/), and /Vl/ is used elsewhere. So we have:

"full" /"fUl/
"bull" /"bUl/
"bully" /"bUli/
"pull" /"pUl/
"pulley" /"pUli/
"pullet" /"pUlIt/

But we have:

"dull" /"dVl/
"cull" /"kVl/
"hull" /"hVl/
"null" /"nVl/
"gull" /"gVl/
"gully" /"gVli/
"lull" /"lVl/
"mull" /"mVl/
"mullet" /"mVlIt/
"sullen" /"sVl@n/
Lazar   Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:54 pm GMT
And regarding what Sarcastic Northwesterner said, let me add that I also use /V5/ in the following words:

"culture" /"kVltS@`/
"difficult" /"dIf@%kVlt/
"gulf" /"gVlf/
Lazar   Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:08 pm GMT
Oh, and then there's "pulpit" /"pVlpIt/, which is just an exception to the rule.
Lazar   Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:10 pm GMT
Wait, I retract that, I think my pronunciation of "pulpit" may just be an idiosyncracy. Most dictionaries show the primary pronunciation as /"pUlpIt/, so it's consistent with the rule. Sorry for making 4 posts in a row. ;-)
Travis   Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:23 pm GMT
>>Wait, I retract that, I think my pronunciation of "pulpit" may just be an idiosyncracy. Most dictionaries show the primary pronunciation as /"pUlpIt/, so it's consistent with the rule. Sorry for making 4 posts in a row. ;-) <<

Not necessarily - in the dialect here, "pulpit" is ["p_hVMpI?], which is analogous to your pronunciation of it.
Lazar   Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:55 pm GMT
Oh, okay - so perhaps /"pVlpIt/ is more common than I thought.
Guest   Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:55 am GMT
I'm from Southern California. Dull and bull rhyme with each other.
Guest   Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:32 am GMT
>> I'm from Southern California. Dull and bull rhyme with each other.<<

Do they also sound like "dole" and "bole"? I've noticed that many Southwesterners do that.
Guest   Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:38 am GMT
No, dole and bole do not rhyme.
Lazar   Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:13 am GMT
<<No, dole and bole do not rhyme.>>

That's interesting. I would have thought that "dole" and "bole" would rhyme in all dialects.
Josh Lalonde   Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:42 am GMT
Yeah, I have [pUopI?] too. I have [V] for 'culture', 'difficult', and 'gulf'.
Josh Lalonde   Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:21 pm GMT
<<Yeah, I have [pUopI?] too. I have [V] for 'culture', 'difficult', and 'gulf'.>>

Actually I realize now that I sometimes have difficult as [dIfIkUut]. I guess it's probably from an analogy with 'difficulty' [dIfIkUuti].

<<No, dole and bole do not rhyme.>>

Did you mean perhaps that they don't rhyme with 'dull' and 'bull'? Like Lazar, I've never heard of a dialect where these two words wouldn't rhyme.