Standard Italian seems to exist side by side with numerous Italian dialects which will not go away. Many Italians seem to prefer speaking in their own particular dialects, particularly Neapolitans, Piemontese, Venetians, Genoese, and Sicilians. Will Standard Italian gain ground on these particular dialects? Or not?
The future of Standard Italian
It's the same with Standard German!
It's like an artificial language that noone really cares about, and in my opinion the dialects are more worth preserving!
...although it will be difficult for foreigners to really understand a thing!
It's like an artificial language that noone really cares about, and in my opinion the dialects are more worth preserving!
...although it will be difficult for foreigners to really understand a thing!
It's easier to find speakers of Standard German in Germany than speakers of Standard Italian in Italy. When I watch German MTV, or VIVA TV they strive to use the most standard form of German and they don't speak with any accent (like Berlin accent or Cologne accent)...
But when I watch Italian Tv stations, everyone speaks with the accent: Milan accent seems to be predominant... Milan is Italian capital city of wealth and business, but their accent is not standard. The standard accent is for Florence and it is used in RAI news and RAI dubbing system...But, most Tv stations in Italy are from North where the standard accent is not spoken so some important things from standard Italian language - like double consonants, closed and open vowels are brutally neglected.
The standard Florence-Rome accent is disappearing and Milan-Turin accents are becoming a new standard: the same thing is not happening in the USA: in NYC they use standard English on TV, not the NYC accent!
But when I watch Italian Tv stations, everyone speaks with the accent: Milan accent seems to be predominant... Milan is Italian capital city of wealth and business, but their accent is not standard. The standard accent is for Florence and it is used in RAI news and RAI dubbing system...But, most Tv stations in Italy are from North where the standard accent is not spoken so some important things from standard Italian language - like double consonants, closed and open vowels are brutally neglected.
The standard Florence-Rome accent is disappearing and Milan-Turin accents are becoming a new standard: the same thing is not happening in the USA: in NYC they use standard English on TV, not the NYC accent!
Hutch,
Standard Italian, as any other literary language will not only continue to live, but it will always evolve, it will became stronger. Standard language is the language of writers, scientists, philosophers etc. It is in a direct relation with education. To speak standard Italian it will become a MUST!
Nowadays (and in the future even more), the human society is asking for better skilled and more talented people in each life and/or working domain. Unlike 30-40 years ago,the today's worker needs to know how to operate his sophisticated equipment; a peasant needs to understand his COMBINE and other specific tools as well.
Nothing in the world of today, nor in the world of tomorrow will give people access to equipments, computers utilisation or sciences and so on, assimilation without using the standard languages for learning. That's valuable for any country and for Italy as well. If a Sicilian peasant wants to know how to use his chainsaw, he has to read the instructions and these instructions will always be written in Standard Italian....Nobody, manufacturers, writers or scientists will ever write instructions, books using dialects. It is not efficient, (it will cost a lot of money to write something in each country's dialect) nor useful. Preserving dialects is important as part of our heritage; It has to be treated exactly like any other tradition what we try to preserve but nothing more!
That's what I think about this subject!
Take care!
Standard Italian, as any other literary language will not only continue to live, but it will always evolve, it will became stronger. Standard language is the language of writers, scientists, philosophers etc. It is in a direct relation with education. To speak standard Italian it will become a MUST!
Nowadays (and in the future even more), the human society is asking for better skilled and more talented people in each life and/or working domain. Unlike 30-40 years ago,the today's worker needs to know how to operate his sophisticated equipment; a peasant needs to understand his COMBINE and other specific tools as well.
Nothing in the world of today, nor in the world of tomorrow will give people access to equipments, computers utilisation or sciences and so on, assimilation without using the standard languages for learning. That's valuable for any country and for Italy as well. If a Sicilian peasant wants to know how to use his chainsaw, he has to read the instructions and these instructions will always be written in Standard Italian....Nobody, manufacturers, writers or scientists will ever write instructions, books using dialects. It is not efficient, (it will cost a lot of money to write something in each country's dialect) nor useful. Preserving dialects is important as part of our heritage; It has to be treated exactly like any other tradition what we try to preserve but nothing more!
That's what I think about this subject!
Take care!
Kelly,
it is true, the accents might show some deviations from the standard of a language but this doesn't means that the people who speak the standard language don't understand what a person form Milan is saying.
The accent will always be there in majority of standard languages but it will not change the language structure, words building or anything else...
it is true, the accents might show some deviations from the standard of a language but this doesn't means that the people who speak the standard language don't understand what a person form Milan is saying.
The accent will always be there in majority of standard languages but it will not change the language structure, words building or anything else...
Credo che oggidí la frase "lingua toscana in bocca romana" sia diventata piuttosto "lingua italiana in bocca milanese".
Dov'è il problema? Io lo trovo assai normale. È una questione di prestigio economico, politico nonchè di demografia. Le lingue sono organismi vivi e, per questa ragione, seguono un'evoluzione.
Nonostante questo, la lingua italiana sussiste, con tutto il suo prestigio.
Miquel Adrover
Dov'è il problema? Io lo trovo assai normale. È una questione di prestigio economico, politico nonchè di demografia. Le lingue sono organismi vivi e, per questa ragione, seguono un'evoluzione.
Nonostante questo, la lingua italiana sussiste, con tutto il suo prestigio.
Miquel Adrover
Ciao Miquel,
Magari non hai potuto leggere i miei messaggi. I libri sono arrivati questa setimana. Se puoi, ti prego di rispondermi al mio indirizzo elettronico.
A più tardi,
Magari non hai potuto leggere i miei messaggi. I libri sono arrivati questa setimana. Se puoi, ti prego di rispondermi al mio indirizzo elettronico.
A più tardi,
Standard Italian evolved from Medieval Florentine as a result of the inluential wrintings of Dante, Petrarch and Boccaccio. The Florentine dialect only came into prominence because of the popularity of such works as La Divina Commedia, The Decameron, and other works by writers that I've just mentioned. Today, neither Florence, nor Rome hold as much sway as does Milan and Turin. Because of the economic, and industrial importance of those cities now and in the future, I see Standard Italian changing and somewhat moving away from its Roman and Florentine roots and moving closer to a Milanese, Turinese accented Italian. I see a future Italian language where, in many cases, the final vowel is omitted, like most Septentrional Dialects already do.
Hutch,
Each language was an is changing… and it will always be like that...but this change is called evolution and it is in fact an adjustment to new socio-economical and political conditions.
Am I wrong or you are suggesting that the actual literary Italian (whose formation is based on Florentine dialect) will be replaced by the northern dialect? If that is what you think, then you are in error. You see this thing too abstract…
Nobody, (politicians, scientists, sociologists, literates) will replace a standard language. Why would they do that? It is the need of this northern dialect critical for country’s development?
Don’t mix the way the people are speaking it, with the way the same people are writing it! When the people from north are writing books, reports, statements, news etc “eating” vowels or using dialectal expression won’t be used and they won’t be accepted by anybody: readers of books, readers of reports, readers of news etc. The actual standard language might get richer under the influence of the northern dialect but it will never be replaced by it.
I suspect, that your confusion starts with the way you think that the actual Italian standard ahs been formed. You probably think that this happened almost like an accident because of Dante’s personality and his work: No, it is not like that. Dante was only the occasion for the Italians linguist and politicians who sense a strong need of an unique and generalized (standard) language; a need for a language which should allow all inhabitants a better communication throughout the whole country, (from the north to the south).
Dante’s dialect was generally accepted as a base for the standard language; it was easier this way than building from scratch a completely new language. The necessity of a standard language was not determined by Dante or his Florentine dialect. The necessity was first, before this dialect has been chosen. The dialect served only as a template for the modern Italian.
I don’t dispute the possibility that in case Milan’s dialect would have been as inspirational as the Florentine one, today modern Italian would have been very closed to the Milanese dialect. But that was not the case…
Now, by saying all these, why would Italians be bothered and would lose their time replacing the actual literary language? It will be totally unproductive and totally unnecessary! Therefore, there is nor reasons for concerns that Italian will disappear…it will always evolve, like every other language …
After the Second World War, the Southern side of Germany became the country’s economy engine. Automotive industry (Mercedes, Porsche, BMW) has found its boom in this Southern part of Western Germany (Deutschland). Baden Wuertemberg and Bayer, have begun to play one of the most important role in Germany’s economy….this was not enough to create an imperious need for the Germans to replace their literary language (Hanover dialect), with Schwab’s or Bayer’s Dialects. In this provinces, at their work places, the people are speaingk pretty often in their dialect but when it goes to writing, (especially official writing), they will always use die Deutsche Sprache!
Sorry for being so long!
Each language was an is changing… and it will always be like that...but this change is called evolution and it is in fact an adjustment to new socio-economical and political conditions.
Am I wrong or you are suggesting that the actual literary Italian (whose formation is based on Florentine dialect) will be replaced by the northern dialect? If that is what you think, then you are in error. You see this thing too abstract…
Nobody, (politicians, scientists, sociologists, literates) will replace a standard language. Why would they do that? It is the need of this northern dialect critical for country’s development?
Don’t mix the way the people are speaking it, with the way the same people are writing it! When the people from north are writing books, reports, statements, news etc “eating” vowels or using dialectal expression won’t be used and they won’t be accepted by anybody: readers of books, readers of reports, readers of news etc. The actual standard language might get richer under the influence of the northern dialect but it will never be replaced by it.
I suspect, that your confusion starts with the way you think that the actual Italian standard ahs been formed. You probably think that this happened almost like an accident because of Dante’s personality and his work: No, it is not like that. Dante was only the occasion for the Italians linguist and politicians who sense a strong need of an unique and generalized (standard) language; a need for a language which should allow all inhabitants a better communication throughout the whole country, (from the north to the south).
Dante’s dialect was generally accepted as a base for the standard language; it was easier this way than building from scratch a completely new language. The necessity of a standard language was not determined by Dante or his Florentine dialect. The necessity was first, before this dialect has been chosen. The dialect served only as a template for the modern Italian.
I don’t dispute the possibility that in case Milan’s dialect would have been as inspirational as the Florentine one, today modern Italian would have been very closed to the Milanese dialect. But that was not the case…
Now, by saying all these, why would Italians be bothered and would lose their time replacing the actual literary language? It will be totally unproductive and totally unnecessary! Therefore, there is nor reasons for concerns that Italian will disappear…it will always evolve, like every other language …
After the Second World War, the Southern side of Germany became the country’s economy engine. Automotive industry (Mercedes, Porsche, BMW) has found its boom in this Southern part of Western Germany (Deutschland). Baden Wuertemberg and Bayer, have begun to play one of the most important role in Germany’s economy….this was not enough to create an imperious need for the Germans to replace their literary language (Hanover dialect), with Schwab’s or Bayer’s Dialects. In this provinces, at their work places, the people are speaingk pretty often in their dialect but when it goes to writing, (especially official writing), they will always use die Deutsche Sprache!
Sorry for being so long!
''In this provinces, at their work places, the people are speaingk pretty often in their dialect but when it goes to writing, (especially official writing), they will always use die Deutsche Sprache!''
Well, yes, but people from Turin, Milan and other parts of Northern Italy don't use the correct spelling: they pronounce perché and ventitré with open vowels so they thing they regional nonstandard spelling should be reflected in spelling too: so they write perchè and ventitrè.
standard spelling (and pronunciation: é indicates closed e): perché, ventitré
non-standard Northern spelling (and pronunciation: è=open e): perchè, ventitrè
I am against the Northernisms changing the standard Florence/Rome based Italian language. V is vu, it will never be vi!
Well, yes, but people from Turin, Milan and other parts of Northern Italy don't use the correct spelling: they pronounce perché and ventitré with open vowels so they thing they regional nonstandard spelling should be reflected in spelling too: so they write perchè and ventitrè.
standard spelling (and pronunciation: é indicates closed e): perché, ventitré
non-standard Northern spelling (and pronunciation: è=open e): perchè, ventitrè
I am against the Northernisms changing the standard Florence/Rome based Italian language. V is vu, it will never be vi!
''In this provinces, at their work places, the people are speaingk pretty often in their dialect but when it goes to writing, (especially official writing), they will always use die Deutsche Sprache!''
Well, yes, but people from Turin, Milan and other parts of Northern Italy don't use the correct spelling: they pronounce perché and ventitré with open vowels so they thing their regional nonstandard spelling should be reflected in spelling too: so they write perchè and ventitrè.
standard spelling (and pronunciation: é indicates closed e): perché, ventitré
non-standard Northern spelling (and pronunciation: è=open e): perchè, ventitrè
I am against the Northernisms changing the standard Florence/Rome based Italian language. V is vu, it will never be vi!
Well, yes, but people from Turin, Milan and other parts of Northern Italy don't use the correct spelling: they pronounce perché and ventitré with open vowels so they thing their regional nonstandard spelling should be reflected in spelling too: so they write perchè and ventitrè.
standard spelling (and pronunciation: é indicates closed e): perché, ventitré
non-standard Northern spelling (and pronunciation: è=open e): perchè, ventitrè
I am against the Northernisms changing the standard Florence/Rome based Italian language. V is vu, it will never be vi!