short "u" vowel in American English.

Tavorian   Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:33 pm GMT
How would you transcribe the short "u" vowel used in American English? The vowel used by most Americans is somewhere in between [V] and [6]. I prefer using [6] as what are traditional transcribed as [V] and [@] aren't actually phonetically distinct vowels for most Americans. Therefore, I'd used:

"cup" [k6p]
"abut" [6b6t]

Using [@] and [V] suggests the first and second vowel of "abut" are actually audibly different while for most Americans this isn't true, so it makes no sense to transcribe it as [@bVt] as both the vowels are the same, only one is stressed and the other is unstressed.
Lazar   Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:47 pm GMT
I likewise use a vowel that's between [6] and [V], but I prefer to transcribe it [V]. This lets me use a different transcription for English and Antipodean dialects that use a truly central [6].

<<I prefer using [6] as what are traditional transcribed as [V] and [@] aren't actually phonetically distinct vowels for most Americans.>>

I actually don't think that's true in my case. The vowel that I would use in the first syllable of "abut", for example, seems to be closer and more central. If I try to pronounce "Rosa" as ["r\7UzV] - in other words, using the exact quality of my "cup" vowel for the second syllable - it sounds different from how I would actually say it.
Tavorian   Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:54 pm GMT
I don't perceive any difference between the first and second vowel in "abut". They have an identical quality for me, and I used to actually wonder why the dictionary had separate symbols for them.
Kendra   Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:19 am GMT
love, but, color, courage

[l@v, b@t, 'k@l@r, 'k@r@dZ]
Lazar   Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:45 am GMT
<<[l@v, b@t, 'k@l@r, 'k@r@dZ]>>

But phonetically I'm sure that you have something like [r\=] or [@`] in the second syllable of "color". Your transcription is ambiguous because it's impossible to tell whether you have the hurry-furry merger.
Josh Lalonde   Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:56 am GMT
I have a slight difference in vowel quality between the two syllables of 'abut' [@bV?]. My [V] is somewhat backer than my [@], which is in turn somewhat higher than [6]. Unstressed vowels in English tend to be centralized, so I suppose the difference between [V] and [@] could be analysed as one of stress only. Using [@] and [V] is more useful for cross-dialect comparisons as well.
Travis   Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:08 am GMT
In my case, I have a clear difference in vowel quality between the two syllables of "abut", [@:"bV?] or [@:"b7?], with the second vowel being a clear back vowel while the first vowel is clearly central and higher than [6]. As with Josh Lalonde said, I would myself analyze the phoneme in question as being underlyingly /V/ or even /7/ IMD, and would treat [@] as being due to centralization due to being unstressed.