>>
where?
even in the Norther Cities shift region talk has [A]:<<
Only in more progressive forms of the NCVS; for example, here, most people have [Q] for canonical /O:/ rather than [A] (even though there are those who do use [A] for such) even though there is the clear realization of canonical /A:/ as [a] (besides that such may be [A], [V], or [Q] adjacent to /r/, /l/, or /w/) and canonical /{/ as [E{], [e{], [E@], or just plain [{_r] or [E].
>><<where?>>
I was talking about phonemics, not phonetics. The [A] in NCVS "talk, dawn, caught", in interdialectal phonemics, is still /O/. <<
Exactly - the [A] in more progressive forms of the NCVS corresponds to General American [O] or [Q] not General American [A], which instead corresponds to NCVS [a] or even [{] (usually).
where?
even in the Norther Cities shift region talk has [A]:<<
Only in more progressive forms of the NCVS; for example, here, most people have [Q] for canonical /O:/ rather than [A] (even though there are those who do use [A] for such) even though there is the clear realization of canonical /A:/ as [a] (besides that such may be [A], [V], or [Q] adjacent to /r/, /l/, or /w/) and canonical /{/ as [E{], [e{], [E@], or just plain [{_r] or [E].
>><<where?>>
I was talking about phonemics, not phonetics. The [A] in NCVS "talk, dawn, caught", in interdialectal phonemics, is still /O/. <<
Exactly - the [A] in more progressive forms of the NCVS corresponds to General American [O] or [Q] not General American [A], which instead corresponds to NCVS [a] or even [{] (usually).