"Reading is easier than listening"

beneficii   Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:11 pm GMT
In this article:

http://www.antimoon.com/how/readlisten.htm

"If your vocabulary is poor, you will never understand natural spoken English."

I disagree with the above sentence. Though I agree that it is much more difficult to understand spoken as opposed to written language, it's not impossible and over time and with enough input a person will start to get even that. I knew someone who knew very little English when they came over here (to America) at age 19 and married an American who spoke English. At first, she said, she had a really hard time understanding everything that was said, but over time what people were saying just became more and more comprehensible to her and now (at age 33), except for a slight accent affecting mainly tone, she speaks English at the level of a native.
Guest   Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:41 pm GMT
That statement is specifically meant for esl learners who live in their native countries......where they can not find real native speakers to communicate with....And, yes, my experience suggests to me that language learning is a game of vocabulary....my reading speed and my listening comprehension was markedly improved because of my vocabulary level...
beneficii   Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:43 pm GMT
Guest,

I think so too. I agree, from a community where it's not really spoken, you're going to have a hard time finding the level of input required for that and reading might be more worthwhile in the end because of that.

Still, saying "never" like that is I think a bit strong and may be exaggerated.
Guest   Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:10 pm GMT
I agree with "never" bit. I started watching sitcoms when I was a zero beginner, I could not understand everything yet I was able to comprehend some sentences here and there. For example, listen up...have a nice day...take a seat....I'll get it....pull it over there...etc Visual scenes helped me to comprehend those easy sentences but understanding politcians, native speakers.....you need a great deal of vocab at your disposal...otherwise their speech will always sound like hodge podge on your ears.

To make it simple, Tom has set high standards for ESl learners to achieve....he wants them to be near native speakers...so he is going to suggest better and hard ways for achieving that.....

After implementing his methods for three years, I dont have a problem understanding native speakers and reading newspaper articles...because he has been there and done that......he is not a native speaker yet he sounds one. So he def knows a thing ..about language learning!
beneficii   Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:16 pm GMT
Guest,

"I agree with "never" bit. I started watching sitcoms when I was a zero beginner, I could not understand everything yet I was able to comprehend some sentences here and there. For example, listen up...have a nice day...take a seat....I'll get it....pull it over there...etc Visual scenes helped me to comprehend those easy sentences but understanding politcians, native speakers.....you need a great deal of vocab at your disposal...otherwise their speech will always sound like hodge podge on your ears."

Well, I'm still not so sure. Saying _never_ like that is an exaggeration unless it's clarified. If in the case you are living in the society where the language it's spoken, then the _never_ rule wouldn't apply.

Still, I agree with him in general about that, and I think he's directing this toward people who don't live in English-speaking countries.

(As a note, I'm a native English speaker, but I think a lot of what is found on this site can be applied to learning other languages. I'm learning Japanese right now. I posted this on the "Languages" forum instead of the "English" forum because I think this can be applied to any language.)
Guest   Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:11 pm GMT
because his methods are based on Stephen krashen's hypothesis. You acquire language acquistion through understanding comprehensible messages (through input, listening and reading) not through practice(output, speaking and writing). That's why I am so chilled out when it comes to learnign a language. All my frustaion of speaking a language is evaporated. I spend most of my time on reading and listening!


yeah, the never rule would apply to me as I am not living in an English speaking country.

You must check out Norsk experiment which was conducted by Michal who is Tom's friend--it is unique and different. Go to his homepage!

I want to know your views on that experiment too.
Guest   Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:19 pm GMT
*frustration....
beneficii   Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:20 pm GMT
Guest,

Cool. Do you have a link?
beneficii   Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:36 pm GMT
Guest,

Don't worry. Your message was understandable. Typos are common.

One common issue is when you change the inflection of one word and you have to change the other, such as:

For example, you originally planned to type:

"Does the admirable person wish to eat something?"

And you wish to make "person" plural, but you forgot to go back and change the verb:

"Does the admirable people wish to eat something?"

So, don't worry about that.

But still, do you have a link?
beneficii   Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:05 pm GMT
OK, I found it. Anyway, that is interesting. It's more or less what I'm doing with Japanese. Just take in more and more and more input. Just keep exposing myself more and more to it. Just keep going and going and going and I'll eventually get it.

LOL.
Guest   Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:05 am GMT
benefici

you don't get a couple of things apart from that input theory.

1. looking up words in the middle of reading disturbs your mind from being total immersion so he suggests for figuring out meanings from real context if you can't do so carry on with your reading. You'll learn all vocabulary words in good time. On the other hand, Antimoon is in favor of using all sorts of dictionaries while reading.

2. Reading same sentence many times to an extent of memorization.

3. Background listening.

LOL......for output, we need input.
Franco   Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:12 am GMT
<<OK, I found it. Anyway, that is interesting. It's more or less what I'm doing with Japanese. Just take in more and more and more input. Just keep exposing myself more and more to it. Just keep going and going and going and I'll eventually get it.

LOL.>>

beneficii,
Why are you finding it funny like a baffoon?
beneficii   Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:00 pm GMT
Franco,

"Why are you finding it funny like a baffoon?"

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what is meant by "like a baffoon."

Guest,

I do find when I actually memorize the sentence and can turn away from the book/conversation for second and let my brain chomp on it a bit that I can often get the meaning of it, which is good.

I try to avoid dictionaries, though if push comes to shove, I'll do it like I did in childhood and just look it up in a Japanese dictionary where the words are defined in Japanese.

As a kid, I remember I was hyperlexic and would read a whole bunch of books simply for the sake of reading them. If I see Japanese speakers around, I will attempt to eavesdrop on their conversation. LOL.
Guest   Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:23 pm GMT
Franco, it is buffoon.

I wish If I could be hyperlexic.............reading books is not my forte.
furrykef   Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:25 pm GMT
Heh, I'd guess that "baffoon" is a buffoonish baboon.