Is this Standard English?
"There was this man, and he’d got this gun."
"There was this man, and he’d got this gun."
this
"he'd got" doesn't sound very standard to me. I think "he had" would be more universal.
You mean the use of "this" in both sentences? It's colloquial, but it's common. I hear it all the time.
"He'd got" doesn't sound so unusual to me... it can mean "he had obtained this gun" rather than "he had this gun", though the difference isn't likely to be significant in a sentence like that. I think a Brit would also be more likely to say "he'd got" to simply mean "had".
- Kef
"He'd got" doesn't sound so unusual to me... it can mean "he had obtained this gun" rather than "he had this gun", though the difference isn't likely to be significant in a sentence like that. I think a Brit would also be more likely to say "he'd got" to simply mean "had".
- Kef
If it meant "he had obtained this gun", wouldn't it be "he'd gotten this gun"?
That depends on your dialect the word "gotten" is not used outside of North America.
In colloquial speech, it could be either. In more formal speech, "gotten" would be preferred, but the sentence is already informal as it is.
<<<You mean the use of "this" in both sentences? It's colloquial, but it's common. I hear it all the time.>>>
But is it Standard English?
But is it Standard English?
<That depends on your dialect the word "gotten" is not used outside of North America. >
It is. It is used by most of those who have studied and/or use American English world-over.
It is. It is used by most of those who have studied and/or use American English world-over.
<<<In more formal speech, "gotten" would be preferred>>>
Preferred over what and where?
Preferred over what and where?
I disagree with furrykef. I am an American and I use "gotten" past participle of "to get" in preference to "got" when I mean "received" under all circumstances, regardless of formality level.
<< But is it Standard English? >>
Considering that there's a big debate in another thread over what "Standard English" is, I'll just have to say that depends on your definition of Standard English.
<< Preferred over what and where? >>
Well, here in the U.S., I seldom hear "got" in the sense of "received"; people typically say "gotten". So my impression is that "gotten" is the more "standard" form here.
<< I am an American and I use "gotten" past participle of "to get" in preference to "got" when I mean "received" under all circumstances, regardless of formality level. >>
I didn't say otherwise. :) Saying that "gotten" is preferred in formal contexts doesn't mean that people don't use it in informal contexts. Indeed, I usually don't use "got" that way either.
- Kef
Considering that there's a big debate in another thread over what "Standard English" is, I'll just have to say that depends on your definition of Standard English.
<< Preferred over what and where? >>
Well, here in the U.S., I seldom hear "got" in the sense of "received"; people typically say "gotten". So my impression is that "gotten" is the more "standard" form here.
<< I am an American and I use "gotten" past participle of "to get" in preference to "got" when I mean "received" under all circumstances, regardless of formality level. >>
I didn't say otherwise. :) Saying that "gotten" is preferred in formal contexts doesn't mean that people don't use it in informal contexts. Indeed, I usually don't use "got" that way either.
- Kef
<Considering that there's a big debate in another thread over what "Standard English" is, I'll just have to say that depends on your definition of Standard English. >
Sorry, should I have written "in your definition of Standard English"? Well, is it Standard English in your definition of the term, Kef?
<Saying that "gotten" is preferred in formal contexts doesn't mean that people don't use it in informal contexts.>
I would have thought that the literal word would be more formal. "Gotten" sounds informal to me. So, In AE, are both these formal?
He had gotten up early that day because...
He had woken early that day because...
Sorry, should I have written "in your definition of Standard English"? Well, is it Standard English in your definition of the term, Kef?
<Saying that "gotten" is preferred in formal contexts doesn't mean that people don't use it in informal contexts.>
I would have thought that the literal word would be more formal. "Gotten" sounds informal to me. So, In AE, are both these formal?
He had gotten up early that day because...
He had woken early that day because...
<<I would have thought that the literal word would be more formal. "Gotten" sounds informal to me. So, In AE, are both these formal?
He had gotten up early that day because...
He had woken early that day because...>>
That's a different issue, that of using an idiomatic verb phrase ( to get up) as opposed to a different verb (to wake). As a general rule, verb phrases tend to be less formal, but there are certainly exceptions.
He had gotten up early that day because...
He had woken early that day because...>>
That's a different issue, that of using an idiomatic verb phrase ( to get up) as opposed to a different verb (to wake). As a general rule, verb phrases tend to be less formal, but there are certainly exceptions.
<< Sorry, should I have written "in your definition of Standard English"? Well, is it Standard English in your definition of the term, Kef? >>
I would say that it's "standard" in the sense that it's very widely used and not perceived as ungrammatical, but it's not a construction you're likely to hear in formal and semi-formal contexts like news broadcasts, nor is it typically used in writing (unless you're writing dialogue, of course).
<< I would have thought that the literal word would be more formal. "Gotten" sounds informal to me. So, In AE, are both these formal? >>
Well, I'm sure there are plenty of uses of "get" (and therefore "gotten") in formal speech. "He had obtained a gun" would be more formal than "He had gotten a gun", though. I sometimes use words like that in my own informal speech, but other people don't do it as often as I do. I'm really not an expert on what constitutes formal speech, though. If a newscaster said "There was a man who had gotten a gun", it wouldn't sound unusual to me, but in practice a newscaper might prefer to say "obtained".
- Kef
I would say that it's "standard" in the sense that it's very widely used and not perceived as ungrammatical, but it's not a construction you're likely to hear in formal and semi-formal contexts like news broadcasts, nor is it typically used in writing (unless you're writing dialogue, of course).
<< I would have thought that the literal word would be more formal. "Gotten" sounds informal to me. So, In AE, are both these formal? >>
Well, I'm sure there are plenty of uses of "get" (and therefore "gotten") in formal speech. "He had obtained a gun" would be more formal than "He had gotten a gun", though. I sometimes use words like that in my own informal speech, but other people don't do it as often as I do. I'm really not an expert on what constitutes formal speech, though. If a newscaster said "There was a man who had gotten a gun", it wouldn't sound unusual to me, but in practice a newscaper might prefer to say "obtained".
- Kef
<I would say that it's "standard" in the sense that it's very widely used and not perceived as ungrammatical, but it's not a construction you're likely to hear in formal and semi-formal contexts like news broadcasts, nor is it typically used in writing (unless you're writing dialogue, of course). >
Hmm. Are you also saying that language used in informal contexts cannot be classed as Standard English?
Hmm. Are you also saying that language used in informal contexts cannot be classed as Standard English?