stupid question?

Guest   Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:07 pm GMT
This question was posted in another thread:

Would you use "used to" in these gaps?

"When I was a kid we used to go to my grandmother’s at the seaside. And we _____ get up early every morning and dash across to the beach, and we ______ spend ages in the sea, even if it was freezing..."

One of the guest posters said it was a stupid question. Could anyone please tell me why it is a stupid question - if it is?
Guest   Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:22 pm GMT
It is because "filling these gaps" is not going to help students speak fluent English hence your question is stupid and is of little consequence to ESL students.


"When I was a kid we used to go to my grandmother’s at the seaside. And we ___used to__ get up early every morning and dash across to the beach, and ....

we ______ spend ages in the sea, even if it WERE freezing..." this sentence does not make any sense to me.

Did you spend......in the sea? ages???
JP   Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:06 am GMT
I don't think this is a stupid question, especially if it is about what would come the most naturally, or what a student of English might want to keep in mind while giving such an account.

All other things being equal, I prefer to alternate the two to keep things from becoming too repetitive.

So I would say, "When I was a kid, we used to go to my grandmother's at the seaside. And we would get up early every morning and dash across to the beach. We used to spend ages in the sea, even though it was freezing cold..."

In response to the most recent comments...

Even if the use of the subjunctive is grammatically correct here, it still sounds awkward, and so I would recast to avoid this tense altogether.

I would also add that the word "ages" is fine here as a figurative term to describe what seems (or seemed) like a very long time to the speaker; "eons" can be used in a similar way.
Dolly   Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:53 am GMT
<It is because "filling these gaps" is not going to help students speak fluent English hence your question is stupid and is of little consequence to ESL students. >

Filling the gaps is actually one function of the mind in language use. I normally don't create sentences step by step. I often have a skeleton in my mind of what I would like to say and then I fill in the missing parts. This all happens very quickly of course. As a student, I find gap-filling quite useful.

<Even if the use of the subjunctive is grammatically correct here, it still sounds awkward, and so I would recast to avoid this tense altogether.>

Please could you tell me which part of that text above you speak about is the subjunctive?

<I would also add that the word "ages" is fine here as a figurative term to describe what seems (or seemed) like a very long time to the speaker; "eons" can be used in a similar way. >

Do you mean you would replace "ages" with "eons", there? Why would you want to do that?
M56   Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:19 am GMT
<we ______ spend ages in the sea, even if it WERE freezing..." this sentence does not make any sense to me.

Did you spend......in the sea? ages??? >

Is it the use of "ages" that you do not understand? Or, is it the use of "were", there which has thrown you?
furrykef   Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:57 pm GMT
<< It is because "filling these gaps" is not going to help students speak fluent English hence your question is stupid and is of little consequence to ESL students. >>

Comments like this are completely uncalled for, and also wrongheaded. The question may not make a good exam question, but it may help a particular individual understand something. Therefore, it is not stupid.

<< Please could you tell me which part of that text above you speak about is the subjunctive? >>

At first I missed this, too, but I see that the first response changed "even if it was freezing" to "even if it were freezing". I disagree with this change, because we're not talking about a hypothetical or contrary-to-fact scenario. There were times that was freezing (as well as times that it wasn't), so the indicative should be used, and using the subjunctive is a hypercorrection. I don't think rewording the sentence as JP suggests is necessary.

To answer the question in the original post, I wouldn't use "used to" in those blanks because it sounds strange to use it in the middle of a sequence of habitual actions. I'd strongly prefer "would". It'd also be possible to just use the simple past indicative ("And we got up every morning and dashed across to the beach"), but I still prefer using "would".

- Kef
Damian in London E14   Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:21 pm GMT
My preference:

1st gap: used to

2nd gap: would

When students are learning English "filling in the gaps" exercises are a good idea and enhance a good working knowledge of the Language as used on an everyday basis.

I don't think it was a "stupid question" at all. Carry on........

Have a great weekend. Hope Friday the Thirteenth is going well for you. So far so good.....now I'll probably go out and get hit by lightning or a No 11 bus. If I never appear in here again you'll know I died happy :-) There isn't another one until next June.
JP   Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:21 pm GMT
Dolly:

<<Do you mean you would replace "ages" with "eons", there? Why would you want to do that?>>

No, that's not what I meant. I was simply explaining the use of the word "ages" in this sentence, since it seemed to bother someone, and pointing out that "eons" can be used in a similar way. I did not mean that "eons" should replace "ages." In fact, at the beginning of my sentence, I said that the use of "ages" in the example was fine.

Kef:

<<At first I missed this, too, but I see that the first response changed "even if it was freezing" to "even if it were freezing". I disagree with this change, because we're not talking about a hypothetical or contrary-to-fact scenario. There were times that was freezing (as well as times that it wasn't), so the indicative should be used, and using the subjunctive is a hypercorrection. I don't think rewording the sentence as JP suggests is necessary.

To answer the question in the original post, I wouldn't use "used to" in those blanks because it sounds strange to use it in the middle of a sequence of habitual actions. I'd strongly prefer "would". It'd also be possible to just use the simple past indicative ("And we got up every morning and dashed across to the beach"), but I still prefer using "would".>>

We obviously have some stylistic differences here...

I would still reword that sentence, if only because I think it sounds better that way, but that's just me. I would also point out that "even if" seems to suggest some form of hypothetical situation to me, and hence the use of the subjunctive could be technically justified. But using it would still sound strange to me, hence the rewording.
furrykef   Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:34 pm GMT
<< My preference:

1st gap: used to

2nd gap: would >>

Are you sure? Did you notice that "used to" was already used in the sentence preceding the first blank? Although I think it's still more acceptable in the first blank than in the second one.

- Kef
Skippy   Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:16 pm GMT
K, this is a good rebuttal for my post on the "used to/would" post. After establishing past tense with "used to" it would be appropriate to use "would," though I would prefer the use of the simple past (got up; spent).
Guest   Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:34 pm GMT
Skippy, you mentioned once that you are a native american, if I'm not wrong. What is your mother tongue? I'm just curious, really.
Guest   Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:50 am GMT
<There were times that was freezing (as well as times that it wasn't), >

You missed out a pronoun.
M56   Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:57 am GMT
"When I was a kid we used to go to my grandmother’s at the seaside. And we _____ get up early every morning and dash across to the beach, and we ______ spend ages in the sea, even if it was freezing, and it often was."


"When I was a kid we used to go to my grandmother’s at the seaside. And we _____ get up early every morning and dash across to the beach, and we ______ spend ages in the sea, even if it were freezing, and it often was."

To me, the second example sounds better.
M56   Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:05 am GMT
Does Davy's second question sound odd to anyone here?

Davy: What did you use to do for holidays when you were a kid?
Marge: Ah, we used to go to my granny's farm.
Davy: Then what did you use to do when you got there?
Marge: ...

.....

To me, "would" is normal in second questions on such themes.
furrykef   Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:31 am GMT
Yes, it sounds odd to me. "What did you do when you got there?" sounds OK to me, too, and it sounds better to me here than the simple preterite usually does in such situations... it might be because both "What did you do?" and "What would you do?" can both contract to "What'd you do?", blurring the distinction somewhat.

- Kef