We know the NCVS is common in Northeastern Ohio and sixty miles north in Detroit, but I have seen different opinions about Toledo. Has the NCVS been firmly adopted in this region, or is it still part of the area that is undecided? William Labov places Northwestern Ohio in the North Midland zone, but someone on another site had Toledo listed in the Inland North region.
Toledo, Ohio (NCVS)
Labov puts the entire southern coast of Lake Erie in the Inland North zone. This includes Toledo. As for shifts, Labov found that Toledo speakers raise /{/ in all environments as NCVS speakers do. /Q/ has been fronted in some of the samples, and /V/ is more backed than /Q/ in his samples, all signs of the NCVS. On the other hand, Labov does not show /{/ is higher and fronter than /E/ in his samples from Toledo. I don't think that Toledo participates in the NCVS as much as, say, Cleveland, but it definitely does not belong in the Midlands region.
One should also remember that the NCVS already extends at least quite a good ways into Wisconsin, and, even though Labov really has not stated such, these days extends all the way through Wisconsin into Minnesota, so I would be very surprised if northwestern Ohio *didn't* have the NCVS.
The NCVS basically disappears just a short distance south of Toledo though, Travis. I can understand why someone might want to group Toledo in with the Midlands, but the dialect border does not stop at the Michigan-Ohio border, of course.
>>The NCVS basically disappears just a short distance south of Toledo though, Travis. I can understand why someone might want to group Toledo in with the Midlands, but the dialect border does not stop at the Michigan-Ohio border, of course.<<
I would expect there to be an uninterrupted chain of dialects with the NCVS from western New York through Minnesota, so I would expect there to be at least some strip along Lake Michigan in northwestern Indiana with the NCVS myself rather than there being NCVS there at all.
I would expect there to be an uninterrupted chain of dialects with the NCVS from western New York through Minnesota, so I would expect there to be at least some strip along Lake Michigan in northwestern Indiana with the NCVS myself rather than there being NCVS there at all.
It would be nice to know where NVCS ends and where CCmerger (in WestPA begins)... West PA, Northern KY and West Virginia are a CC merged places with no shifts? (like Cali or Canadian ones)...
----
Also Texas is a nice state...Beyoncé (from interviews) is very partially merged, sometimes she pronounces words like LONG, SONG with [A], sometimes with [Q], sometimes she has [A] in CAUGHT, ALL, COFFEE, sometimes she has [Q]...
----
Also Texas is a nice state...Beyoncé (from interviews) is very partially merged, sometimes she pronounces words like LONG, SONG with [A], sometimes with [Q], sometimes she has [A] in CAUGHT, ALL, COFFEE, sometimes she has [Q]...
The cot-caught merger and the NCVS overlap today in western Wisconsin and Minnesota (despite Labov's stating that the NCVS only extends as far out west as the general Madison area...) It should be noted that in this case the NCVS is on top of the cot-caught merger, rather than vice versa.
I found a link to the map where it shows Toledo in the North Midland zone.
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atlas/maps/MapsM/Map1M.html
It seems to be directly on the border of the Inland North, and that would seem to back up Ryan's observation on how it is not quite as strong compared to Cleveland. I do agree that it should it not be listed in the North Midland as I am sure the general accent of Toledo is vastly different compared to say Fort Wayne, IN.
Travis, I have also noticed that the NCVS extends well into Wisconsin and west into Minnesota, but the NCVS in Minneapolis seems light compared to the variation found in Kenosha, Milwaukee, and Madison.
It is interesting that it is spreading so rapidly, and I have to wonder just how far it will travel west. As the name would imply, it does not seem to traveling into the central Midwest (except for perhaps St. Louis), as I have never heard anyone from Peoria, IL or Columbus, OH with any trace of the NCVS.
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atlas/maps/MapsM/Map1M.html
It seems to be directly on the border of the Inland North, and that would seem to back up Ryan's observation on how it is not quite as strong compared to Cleveland. I do agree that it should it not be listed in the North Midland as I am sure the general accent of Toledo is vastly different compared to say Fort Wayne, IN.
Travis, I have also noticed that the NCVS extends well into Wisconsin and west into Minnesota, but the NCVS in Minneapolis seems light compared to the variation found in Kenosha, Milwaukee, and Madison.
It is interesting that it is spreading so rapidly, and I have to wonder just how far it will travel west. As the name would imply, it does not seem to traveling into the central Midwest (except for perhaps St. Louis), as I have never heard anyone from Peoria, IL or Columbus, OH with any trace of the NCVS.
>>It is interesting that it is spreading so rapidly, and I have to wonder just how far it will travel west. As the name would imply, it does not seem to traveling into the central Midwest (except for perhaps St. Louis), as I have never heard anyone from Peoria, IL or Columbus, OH with any trace of the NCVS.<<
Mind you that it really has had about fifty years to spread by this point - it likely has not really spread *that* fast, but rather that it is just recently that people have truly noticed its extent.
>>It is interesting that it is spreading so rapidly, and I have to wonder just how far it will travel west. As the name would imply, it does not seem to traveling into the central Midwest (except for perhaps St. Louis), as I have never heard anyone from Peoria, IL or Columbus, OH with any trace of the NCVS.<<
Yeah, it is interesting that the NCVS has still largely confined itself to the Great Lakes region and the Upper Midwest (and has neither moved southward into the Midland region or northward into Canada), unlike some things like Canadian Raising which seem to be spreading more widely, being already present in New England and even detected in New Jersey by this point.
Mind you that it really has had about fifty years to spread by this point - it likely has not really spread *that* fast, but rather that it is just recently that people have truly noticed its extent.
>>It is interesting that it is spreading so rapidly, and I have to wonder just how far it will travel west. As the name would imply, it does not seem to traveling into the central Midwest (except for perhaps St. Louis), as I have never heard anyone from Peoria, IL or Columbus, OH with any trace of the NCVS.<<
Yeah, it is interesting that the NCVS has still largely confined itself to the Great Lakes region and the Upper Midwest (and has neither moved southward into the Midland region or northward into Canada), unlike some things like Canadian Raising which seem to be spreading more widely, being already present in New England and even detected in New Jersey by this point.
Travis, very true, but honestly, I think the NCVS has been around a lot longer than people realize. As you said though, it is entirely possible that the extent of it was overlooked for a long time. For example, I remember several of my older relatives (born circa 1895-1915) who had at least the first stage of it. Whether they always had it or adopted it later on remains a mystery, as they did not have access to recording devices during their childhood.
Here's a copy of Labov's chapter for the North from a draft of his book. You can see for yourself that Toledo at least partially participates in the NCVS.
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atlas/Atlas_chapters/Ch14_2nd.rev.pdf
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atlas/Atlas_chapters/Ch14_2nd.rev.pdf
>>Travis, very true, but honestly, I think the NCVS has been around a lot longer than people realize. As you said though, it is entirely possible that the extent of it was overlooked for a long time. For example, I remember several of my older relatives (born circa 1895-1915) who had at least the first stage of it. Whether they always had it or adopted it later on remains a mystery, as they did not have access to recording devices during their childhood.<<
I wouldn't be surprised if the NCVS were older than most people think myself; it is traditionally dated as beginning around the end of WW2, but again, that could very well be more when people started noticing it than when it really started.
I wouldn't be surprised if the NCVS were older than most people think myself; it is traditionally dated as beginning around the end of WW2, but again, that could very well be more when people started noticing it than when it really started.