Can British people pretend to speak like Americans?

In a European context there is a wide difference between the fair haired, fair skinned, blue eyed, cool and collected and more reserved Northern Europ[eans - and the dark haired, dark skinned, hot and smouldering dark eyed, passionate and fiery ougpoing and demonstrative Southern Europeans


just not to talk about STEREOTYPES....
it's UNBELIEVABLE that people can say such a sentence in 2007!! Simple incredible.
Southern European are dark skinned? hot? passionate? demonstrative?
Northern Europeans are ALL fair haired, blue eyed, cool and reserved, isn't it?
To tell the truth NOT all northern Europeans are viewed in such way, not British for example except for "cool".
I think a 10 years boy have a much more realistic view of reality.
For you British talking without label people is impossible I think, ESPECIALLY people from South Europe.
You always try to divide Europe between South and North, when there is not all that difference.
I met many Southern Europeans who were 2 times more fair haired, fair skinned, blue eyed or cool and collected and more reserved than many northern Europeans or viceversa and this is means nothing.

<<LIZ: I'm (temporarily as far as I know right now) 400 miles south from home right now in London's leafy suburbs - missing home in a way, and in a way I'm not - I love London really - a real blast of a city and I don't come in to contact with too many yoghurt tops. Only trouble with London is that it's so bloody expensive!!! Wow! I don't know how I'd manage without my London allowance (special supplement added to salary for living in London) - and my oyster card. I'm off out now to have some fun using one and spending some of the other. Cheers!>>

LOL! Damian! I didn't mean the question literally! I *knew* you would answer like that because the way I put it sounds really like that. In fact I was insinuating that I couldn't find you among those Scotsmen...it was only a DamiEn. Well, tough luck. :-)

You know Damian, my cousin knows that Brian bloke from BB and she says that he is a bit 'dense' but nowhere near as thick as he is coming across on the telly - why do it to yourself??? There is absolutely no chance that he has never heard of Shakespere or Romeo & Juliet - NO FLIPPING WAY!!!!!!!!

Yougurt tops?? mate I know my slang but I have to say that I have never heard of this one - but it may be one that the youngsters use. I don't think it is rhyming slang though. I think he may be getting it confused with "Yogurt pot" which we used to use to refer to erm.. a ladies privates (gone red). I reckon the bloke has mixed it up. Then again, he may be making it up as he goes along - it's a game after all. I did hear him say it and it seemed like he used it as another word for 'plonker' or 'idiot'. I can't believe it is catching on though!!!

Cheers for the info Travis, that was very interesting. Much obliged mate.

Travis –you mention that AAVE is spoken throughout the US, save for areas where there is no black population, is there a standardised form of this dialect??? I assume that this dialect came about because of the way ‘Black’s’ and ‘White’s’ were essentially separated for so long that a dialect unique to the African American's was inevitable. If this is so then I assume that there would be differences between AAVE spoken from region to region. Is this so?

I’m quite surprised that you said that “it seems to be rather rare for black people to really speak the non-AAVE dialect from the area in which they live”. Is this due to continued non-mixing between the races?? I am also surprised that some of these dialects are unintelligible to you. Is this down to slang words or accent or both?? I can’t think of any American accent/dialect that I have met that I had difficulty understanding, apart from a word here or there.

Saying that, I did see an American film recently called “Smoking Aces” and I had to use the remote control constantly. But this was only down to much of the slang used; the accents were ok though.

In Britain some very Strong Welsh, Scottish and Irish accents can be challenging, but again, it is only a word here or there that I am maybe not familiar with, as well as a few words that are pronounced a bit different. To these ears though, they are never unintelligible (although the English spoken by the Travelling community (pikeys!!) might as well be Martian – but they don’t count!!).

<<Is this due to continued non-mixing between the races?? I am also surprised that some of these dialects are unintelligible to you. Is this down to slang words or accent or both?? I can’t think of any American accent/dialect that I have met that I had difficulty understanding, apart from a word here or there. >>

PubLunch, you oughta see the movie Airplane. AAVE is parodied in this movie; subtitles are provided for those who can't understand it. :-)

PUBLUNCH:

By the way, you need the uncensored version; the versions on TV are heavily edited. Warning: some of it's politically incorrect, by today's standards!

< URIEL: no idea if there are many Scots in new mexico, but good-looking uriel in no clothes on a windy day is a sight i've always prayed for.... >

Well, there's nothing like a nice breeze....;)

<<I don't think it is rhyming slang though. I think he may be getting it confused with "Yogurt pot" which we used to use to refer to erm.. a ladies privates (gone red).>>

I hope THAT's not rhyming slang, because I've run through all the dirty words for that area that I can think of, and I can't think of one it rhymes with!

But they do say that a serving of yogurt every day is good for you, and I'm always concerned for everyone's health. ;P

<<Travis –you mention that AAVE is spoken throughout the US, save for areas where there is no black population, is there a standardised form of this dialect??? I assume that this dialect came about because of the way ‘Black’s’ and ‘White’s’ were essentially separated for so long that a dialect unique to the African American's was inevitable.>>

Actually, if you are talking about the South, blacks and whites have lived there cheek by jowl for a long, long time, and many speak in a manner indistinguishable from each other -- I was once in a supermarket and heard a woman yelling at her child in a stereotypically "black" accent, and when I turned around, lo and behold she was whiter than white. So much for stereotypes! AAVE is nothing more than a derivation of ordinary Southern given cachet as a symbol of group identity, anyway.

As for whether or not most black people speak it, I've met ones who do and ones who don't and ones who can switch back and forth as the occasion arises. Some people might have just a touch of it rather than the full-blown version. I've even met brothers from the same family who have different ways of talking, so it can't just be a case on "not having contact with other black people". Because it's often tied up with group identity rather than being tied to a place, as with most US accents, I think there's some individual preference often at work.

>>Travis –you mention that AAVE is spoken throughout the US, save for areas where there is no black population, is there a standardised form of this dialect??? I assume that this dialect came about because of the way ‘Black’s’ and ‘White’s’ were essentially separated for so long that a dialect unique to the African American's was inevitable. If this is so then I assume that there would be differences between AAVE spoken from region to region. Is this so? <<

The main thing is that here in Upper Midwest, AAVE is essentially an outside dialect that was brought in during the Great Migration from the South to the North in the first half of the twentieth century which is disconnected from any English dialects which developed here.

And Lalonde is correct in saying that AAVE is quite uniform throughout the entire US. At least here, AAVE has very few features related to those in the dialect here aside from that I have heard some AAVE-speakers who actually have Canadian Raising here.

Note that I mean very few features related to those in the dialect here which are not common to North American English above.

Travis, Josh Lalonde and Guest - many thanks for the replies and for the info, that was very much appreciated.

I have never really thought about AAVE before, but I have to admit that it is an interesting subject, I mean a dialect unique to a race of people that is not governed by geography is surely unprecedented isn't it??

Jasper - Yep, I have seen 'Airplane' (aeroplane!!!!) and what a legend of a film!! I remember the scene you mention well, the bit when the old lady 'talks jive' is well funny!! I am not sure if I have seen the uncensored version or not because I did not realise there was such a version. I have only seen it on the telly and I don't know what version they show.

Hmmnn, I'll have to look into that one. I have not seen it for a while mate, but for my money (from the films I have seen) it is along with Blazing saddles, America's finest comedy ('Some Like It Hot' is brilliant also, but it does not make me laugh like the other two).

>>I have never really thought about AAVE before, but I have to admit that it is an interesting subject, I mean a dialect unique to a race of people that is not governed by geography is surely unprecedented isn't it??<<

Not really - think about various Jewish languages historically in Europe such as Yiddish, Ladino, and so on - they really are pretty analogous to AAVE once you think about it.

Pub Lunch - << Public transportation system – hee hee!!! As a Briton that sounds a bit geeky!!! Public transport - ahhh that's better!!!! >>

Sorry - I didn't know that sounds geeky!!!!!!!!!!!! That's what we call it here though...That's a Seattleite term! All the politians and public officials call it that. Again, the difference between American English and British English! :)

I just saw trainspotting and didn't have too many problems with it. I also saw Snatch and the only problem I had was with Brad Pitt's Pikey. All AAVE I've ever heard was the same. Hey, what do you think of Mexican American English? I mean, I've known kids who had never stepped foot in Mexico, but sounded like they just crossed the boarder.

Last note: no offense or anything, but those Scots are supposed to be hunks!?

**no offense or anything, but those Scots are supposed to be hunks!?**

Where was it ever suggested that they were hunks? Please point me in the direction of that illuminating piece of info. Maybe you're confusing "hunks" with "junkies". For junkies they were - Edinburgh's finest!

Being Scottish and being hunky don't always go hand in hand together - it just seems that way. :-)

Glad you didn't have problems with the Trainspotting dialogue......neither did I! Strange how that film seems to have been so much better received elsewhere than in Edinburgh itself.

The day we go all American is when all these red London buses have LONDON TRANSPORTATION written on their sides instead of LONDON TRANSPORT. They'll even have to rename the London Transport Museum at Covent Garden. Nah...no way ...won't seem the same somehow...I reckon they'll give that one a miss.

"Some LIke it Hot"....the last words of that film's dialogue are probably about the most memorable of any fiilm ever made.

"The History Boys" - a play written by Alan Bennett (a guy from Leeds) and has played in theatres all over the UK and had a very successful run on Broadway in New York ....and now made into a film with practically all the same actors (including Richard Griffiths who layed Hector) from the stage productions. It's a fantastic production and I've seen the stage play several times (twice in Edinburgh and once in London...almost the same cast throughout) and the film on DVD. I really enjoyed the bit when Hector and all his students (sixth form boys at a school in Sheffield) did a whole scene entirely in French - Hector forbade any of the guys to speak in English as they acted out the scenes of a mock scenario. I have the whole text of the film in book form and reading this as the DVD plays and following the dialogue it's pretty clear that all of the actors were word perfect all the way through, and some of the French words were pretty diffiicult.

The lads then acted out two short scenes from two films from the 1940s and the rest of them (including both Hector and the new young teacher Irwin) had to guess the name of the film. I hadn't a clue what the films were when I first saw the play although I had heard of one of them - "Brief Encounter". The other one was "Now Voyager"....."Why wish for the moon when we have the stars?" The "Brief Encounter" bit was well done by the two lads, and they seemed to mimic the somewhat stilted, strangulated mega posh style of English English as spoken by middle class (as it was known back then) people of the time in England. A husband welcomes back his wife who had had an illicit love affair with another man (a doctor) she had first met in a railway station cafe. It came to nothing ultimately (he went back to his wife and moved to Africa) and she went back to her husband, although she had never actually left him - she just went off on jollies with this other bloke every Thursday apparently. He says: "Whatever your dream was, it wasn't a very heppy one was it, Laura? You've been a long, long way away - thenk you for coming beck to me, my deah!" Like all those old bleck end wait films of the taim....

<<Sorry - I didn't know that sounds geeky!!!!!!!!!!!! That's what we call it here though...That's a Seattleite term! All the politians and public officials call it that. Again, the difference between American English and British English! :) >>

Oh sorry Vanessa!! I suppose because I'm used to "public transport" that when I heard "public transportation system" it seemed very 'high brow' and a tad 'long winded'!!!

Yep, the differences between our languages are funny, I mean, I can't believe that I only have just cottoned on to the fact that a subway in the US refers to your underground system where as here it refers to a pedestrian walk way that goes under a road (what are these called in the US I wonder?).

Rene - no-one understands 'pikey'!!!!

Why would you have a pedestrian walkway going UNDER a road? All the ones I've seen either run alongside or go OVER. (And I think we just call it a "pedestrian walkway". Or "pedestrian overpass". Or "get a car, loser!")

http://www.resexpo.com/images/skybridge.gif