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Can British people pretend to speak like Americans?
<<Try driving in those places with the realization that your cell phone -- oops, MOBILE -- won't work for most of that drive, because there is no reception in many remote or mountainous areas! >>
Or course, up until a few (several?) years ago, we didn't have cell phones in cars. (I guess some folks had CB radio, though.) Fortunately, through all those pre-cellphone years, my car never broke down.
Maybe it's not much different today, since even in the densly-populated East (not all that far from NYC, in fact), cell phones only work in selected places where there's a tower nearby.
Rene: OK - when, or if, I ever head out west to California I will make it the South part, ok? Actually, the reputation the UK has for raininess is a bit skewed in reality - many UK cities have lower annual rainfall totals than a good many US cities - the trouble here in the UK is that much smaller amounts fall on a greater number of days in all seasons of the year - any one month of the year can be either very wet or bone dry, very warm or bleedin' cold (see - I'm adopting London expressions now! eeks!) eg London receives less than half the annual rainfall that falls on New York City, and a third or more less than some cities in the deep South of the USA. The seaside town of Margate, in Kent, SE England, once had less than 250mm (10 inches in old money) of rainfall in a full year.
However, some places in the mountainous regions of the west and north of the UK receive, on average, some of the highest rainfalls in the whole of Europe.
There most certainly is a cultural difference between the UK and the US when it comes to alcohol and it's social standing. I'm not sure if it all stems, on the American side, from the Puritan inheritance from 1620 onwards. The Puritans in England in the 17th century were a very sobersided group of killjoys in many ways - a complete contrast from the merry goings on of the previous Tudor times.
From the middle ages onwards in the UK alcohol has played a very big part in the social life of this country, and from those early days inns and taverns became the social hub of each and every community. Churches were built, and virtually next door or pretty near - the village pub(s). And so it has been every since. Every village and hamlet has at least one pub, and be it in town or city or small country village or weeiest of hamlets the pub is the centre of social life. The names of British pubs are a point of interest in themselves - some of them obvious (like the Ring'O'Bells pub situated right next door to the church, or the Butchers Arms close to a building that was once a slaughterhouse) to the less obvious like the Slug and Lettuce, the World Turned Upside Down (eg in Reading, Berkshire) or the Quiet Woman ( yes - there are plenty of Quiet Woman's in the UK - I think I'll stop there on this one...)
Some pubs are small and cosy, with just a single bar (quite rare actually, most have two at least - a public bar (where you can play darts or pool and watch footie on giant plasma screens) or the "lounge bar" - more family oriented. At both bars you can order food at the bar - you order, pay and then the nosh is delivered to you where you are sitting at a table. Many pubs have separate restaurants though where you can order both drinks and meals away from the bars. Some pubs are large affairs with several bars, usually varying in character - some bars are quieter where you can have cosy chats with your mates (in winter cosy log fires). Other bars are very noisy, can get very crowded, noise levels can virtually bust your ear drums from either synthetic or live music, karaoke nights etc.
Whichever bar you go to, the general theme is very much social, as I say. The British pub scene is entirely social, and totally, totally different from the American bar scene, as has been pointed out by Jasper. There is no comparison whatsoever between the UK and US in this regard.
This is where the attitude to alcohol varies bwteen us. Here in the UK people automatically "go down the pub" for a whole range of reasons - to have a simple chat, to sort out a problem, to go with work colleagues either after work or at lunchtimes - a meal and a pint with lunch is acceptable - if you are going back to work you have to, of course, be sensible. It depends a lot on the type of job you do - it's all a matter of perspective and circumstance, but one thing is for certain there is not quite the same sort of "alcohol phobia" here in the UK as there is in the USA. It is not regarded as quite the "sinful transgression" over here as it appears to be over there - we just use common sense and a sense of proportion, and assume everyone is going to be responsible and mature about it all really.
The local pub to any one person is called just that - "the local". A place to go and relax, have a drink and some food and have a good laugh and a chat, or enjoy entertainment or maybe even join in the quiz league involving other pubs in the locality each one organising their own quiz teams all in competition with each other.
People go down the pub to sort out problems, discuss business, meet other people of the opposite, or the same, sex with a view to forming relationships inconvivial surroundings - not in the same way, apparently, as the way they use American bars "to get laid". or just sit on a stool at the bar and piss themselves up into oblivion.
There is a binge drinking culture in the UK as most people know, but that is a separate issue, and that is where alcolhol is misused. It's a sort of "new phenomenon" among groups of the younger population, cash rich but sense poor, whose main idea of a good time is to do the rounds of city centre pubs, get as bladdered as they can, and then find themselves involved with the coppers, paramedics, A&E departments and ultimately the magistrates or worse.
Drunkenness is more evident in the UK than it is in the US simply because it is more open. In actual fact the USA has a worse problem with alcoholism as a chronic disease that does the UK because alcohol abuse there is much more hidden and secretive than it is here.
The USA in many ways is a country of contradictions. Alcohol is regarded as almost sinful, yet it has this problem with its abuse behind closed doors so to speak. It must have had an uneasy relationship with alcohol thoughout it's history, and for fourteen years or so it went so far as to even ban its sale and even its consumption on its own soil.
That's one thing the UK has never done, and most assuredly never will, in spite of current problems. Even so, the British pub will always feature prominently in British social life, most of the time very positively indeed. As ever, the minority always spoil things for the vast majority. There is not a single TV soeap opera in the UK that doesn't feature the local pub where much of the action takes place a olot of the time.
I aim to go to a pub called The Quill this evening - fantastic scene there....great beer, great music, great nosh and great craic. Cheers.
Damian, that was very interesting reading; so interesting, in fact, that I read it a second time.
You're probably right about the Puritan influence. In no other Western culture, to my knowledge, is drinking so frowned upon as it is in the US. Victorianism didn't help, either; we Americans went crazy with it.
Your information about the British pub has made me curious enough to explore it, if I ever make my way across the Atlantic. I'll need that etiquette book, however. ;-)
Thanks a bunch for interesting reading.
On a related note--I've noticed that, in America, when I go to restaurants, I can go into my "English mode" and get far superior service! You'd not believe how effective this is; it works the best in better-class establishments.
You don't have to change your accent; General American works just fine. Just change your intonation, tone of voice, and some word choices--and they'll treat you like a king.
To finish off, be sure to say at dessert,"Bristol Creme Sherry would be quite nice, thank you." Prepare for a shocked look and service fit for a king. :-)
Bristol WHAT???
Puritan influence on our alcohol consumption? I never thought of alcohol as sinful -- it's always at parties, barbecues, invited-guest dinners, virtually any social occasion. To go out for a beer or two or three after work is pretty common for many people. I worked in a liquor store for almost a year and we pulled in at least a grand a day -- more on weekends. Most people keep a few beers in the fridge, a bottle or two of wine wherever, and several kinds of hard liquor. No one's weirded out about it. My mother used to make her own wine in her lab at work (for temperature control), and her bosses never minded. my neighbor makes his own and is always handing out bottles of it to us.
The Bible says that drunkenness is a sin, but alcohol consumption, of course, is not... Jesus, Moses, David, Abraham, Paul, etc... EVERYONE drank wine. Jesus' first miracle was at his friends' wedding where he turned water into wine (and I have a feeling he knocked back a few himself). There are some churches that promote refraining from alcohol (The Puritans, Methodists, etc.)
I am actually a Methodist and, although my church is the church responsible for America's prohibition in the 1930s, I do drink... A good deal actually...
So no, drinking is not a sin... Being sloshed out of your mind probably is though...
What I loved about English pubs was the signage. Some of those were so funny! I have a great little pub sign souvenir called "the Honest Lawyer". In it, the lawyer in question has been beheaded.... Also have a photo of a real pub sign for the Walrus and the Carpenter. But my favorite is the Hung, Drawn, and Quartered.
Jasper:
After the excellent post by Damian there is not much I need to add, but you are spot on, I work in the city of London (for an American company no less) and drinking at lunch time is the absolute norm. During Monday -Thursday it is normal to have 1 or 2 beavies with your lunch; however Friday is another matter entirely. Most Fridays, me and basically the entire office (including the guvner's) will head to the pub and from that point the working week will have come to a end. Some will head back to work, but generally the weekend has started. It did baffle me to begin with, but every office in the city seems to do it (by Friday lunchtime the pubs are always rammed). When you start a new job in the city, it is absolute tradition to be taken out by the boss for a heavy session - it's almost like a test!!
Drinking in the US does seem to be different to the UK, and as Damian said 'apparently' there is a growing problem with drink and the yoof (according to the media) and so the age limit for buying alcohol is possibly going to raised to 21. I went to Florida two years ago, I was 26, and I could not get served anywhere without ID, I respect the law but anyone that looked at me could tell I was over 21. The same even applied to mum who was 48!!! The annoying thing was, the only ID we had was our passports, and that is the last thing you want to be carrying with you when you are getting on it!!!! Oddly though, I remember when I walking around the theme parks and I'd see many stalls which were basically blocks of ice with bottles of alcohol embedded in them. Buying a bottle of beer/lager was just like buying an ice-cream!!! This did surprise me. We don't have the weather - but what a smart idea!!!
Going out drinking in the US did seem more geared to getting a 'shag', where as like you say the pub's here can be a family affair, but that was probably due to the places I went to (in the hope of getting a shag!!!). I suppose America does not have an actual equivalent to the UK pub, but if you have establishments like the one portrayed in the programme "Cheers" then that is fairly close.
Going to your local, is almost like going being a member of a club. When I go to my local, it really is almost like being at home. The best pubs I have been to, save 1 or 2 in London (according to some of my family, the pub’s in London are not what they used to be) were the ones around the stunning Cotswolds. They were what I'd term 'proper' pubs, in that these pubs are an integral part of the life of the village community. Most of the Cotswold villages are impossible quaint and many pubs have been there as long as the village itself. Many have fires burning, real ales and a very homely atmosphere, and it is all authentic. Most London pubs are what I'd term mock pubs.
Jasper, you don't need to learn any etiquette at all, you'll be fine but you'll have to do better than a pint mate, otherwise don’t ever go back!!!!
<<If I have to drink beer, only a Corona will do, heavily disguised with lime, of course. Around here, people like to salt their beer -- weird. Doesn't taste that bad, though. Of course, they also salt watermelon and jalapenos and put chile powder on fruit. (!!!) And they put sour cream, lemon juice, and grated cheese on corn (which is actually quite tasty!).>>
Everyone puts Lime in Corona – why?? My sister’s other half loves Corona (but then he also likes Budweiser (US version)) and spends half our drinking time chopping up the bloody things. I suppose there is a reason, but to me it’s Lager and putting a slice of fruit in it is just not cricket!!! Actually there is a Beer that you have in the US called "Sierra Nevada pale ale”, it is hard to find here, but I was shocked – it is really lovely stuff and shows that the yanks do know what they are doing!! That Budweiser gear gives your brewers a bad name though!!!
Salt in their beer?? It's meant to quench the thirst!! Watermelon??? I will not even ask!! That corn sounds yum though.
<<Try driving in those places with the realization that your cell phone -- oops, MOBILE -- won't work for most of that drive, because there is no reception in many remote or mountainous areas!>>
Sounds like a horror film to me!
Very quickly - here is a list of the commonest pub names and the weirdest pub names in the UK. I like the one, on Dartmoor, down in Devon, called simply Nobody Inn. Not good for business if it lives up to its name. Seeing that this is a language forum, I will mention a pub in Warwickshire which is called the Ablative Absolute. I wonder who devised that one - obviously a grammarian!
http://www.fatbadgers.co.uk/Britain/weird.htm
I used to work in "The Dirty Habit" pub in Kent (nr Leeds Castle). I've never been to the "Donkey on Fire" in Ramsgate. Do you get a warm welcome there? or only if u make an a** out of yourself?. (sorry)
<<Jasper, you don't need to learn any etiquette at all, you'll be fine but you'll have to do better than a pint mate, otherwise don’t ever go back!!!! >>
Oh, my word! I'm in deep trouble; a second pint would make me snockered. (laughs at himself). [For Americans, an English pint is 20 oz, not 16 as it is in the States]. Is there a drink socially acceptable to one who hasn't yet developed any tolerance, or acquired a taste, for beer? Would going to a pub on a full stomach help, or is this a breach of etiquette? Bristol Creme Sherry doesn't affect me much on a full stomach.
One thing to note: a whole lot of Americans have Red Indian blood. The Red Indians have no tolerance whatsoever to alcohol, lacking an enzyme that breaks down the alcohol. The Europeans have had 10000 years of practice but the Indians have only had 100-200 years, so you see Indian reservations that have 50% or higher alcoholism rates. I kid you not.
<<Actually there is a Beer that you have in the US called "Sierra Nevada pale ale”>> What a small world it is! Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is produced locally; we have it on our menu! Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is close to English beer? I'll have to try it.
I live in the Sierra Nevada foothills and everybody here drinks Budweiser or some other common drink. I guess we send out those expensive bottles of pale ale for the unexpecting. Got to make a living somehow!
A pint with lunch! That would be frowned on in the US. Pretty much any drinking before 5:00 pm would be. Although at my work I often call people at 8;00 am and they are completely sloshed. But, my job doesn't exactly deal with ordinary folks.
A bit of trivia: The Kennedy's made their fortune from moonshine during the contraband.
I heard from a Methodist (I think) that Methodists in Germany can drink, but not dance...
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