KING KEEN merger
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>> One more question...
How Californians pronounce words spelled without the final -g?
with /I/ or /i/?
Marchin’ Already
Fallin’ From Planes,
Fun Lovin’ Criminals,
Cruisin’ Mooses
Screemin’ Ab-Dabs
Hello Darlin’ <<
The same way everyone else would, myself included: with a lax /I/. It's simply that Californians are more likely to use that form in everyday speech. In everyday speech, I would pronounce those as marcheen, falleen, luveen... And Darling and Darlene are pronounced the same, except for the stress.
>> I don't remember Californians having [Q] in WALKING...
The vowel sounds like [A] to me... <<
Remember, we Westerners are c-c merged. I can hardly distinguish them, and I've learned to distinguish them. When asking Midwesterners how they pronounce "cot" and "caught", it sounds to me like they are saying the same thing, but if I look at their lips when they say them, I can see that they round more for "caught".
>> [Q] is used in some words like ALL, CALL, TALL (because of the final dark L influence <<
Hmm. Actually I think I usually use something closer to [A] for those sometimes--but it depends on the position in the sentence. I don't think it depends much on the L.
>> DOLLAR /dAl@; rarely dQl@r <<
Hmm. One of the most noticible features of the Midwestern accent is how they pronunce "dollar", and when I call them on it, they tell me I make it sound like dole-er.
>> Canadian newscasters pronounce it always like [dQl@r], Californian newscasters prefer [dAl@r] <<
To tell you the truth, I doubt that it has to do with the difference between the Canadian shift and the California vowel shift. You would have to know where the people came from originally, how long they lived in Canada or California, and note their ages and gender, and whether they had a lot of voice training to eliminate their accents.
Whether someone has the shift at any given time has to do with lots of different factors.
>> California vowel shift influence...in which /A/ in all positions can be shifted to /Q/: the most frequent /Q/word is MOM [mQm] :) )) <<
You mean the most *noticible* word to you is "mom".
>> One thing I don't get about the Western pronunciation is the claim that ''there is no [Q] vowel in the West''; I think this is not true.
There is no /Q/ phoneme, but /Q/ can appear because of dark L influence, and because of the Californian vowel shift... <<
There is no distinct [Q] vowel. I perceive [A], and [Q], and even [a] and [O], as being the same "ah" vowel.
>> I've heard a women from WA state pronounce AWESOME with [Q] (that's funny because people from NYC pronounce it with this vowel, but it is both [Q] and /Q/ for them; I think for this women [Q] is /A/ in perception) <<
I've noticed that "awesome" tends to have a more rounded vowel. When we Westerners learn to read, we just think that "ah", "aw", "au" are just spelling variations for the same vowel. We neither produce, nor perceive a difference in those vowels.
How Californians pronounce words spelled without the final -g?
with /I/ or /i/?
Marchin’ Already
Fallin’ From Planes,
Fun Lovin’ Criminals,
Cruisin’ Mooses
Screemin’ Ab-Dabs
Hello Darlin’ <<
The same way everyone else would, myself included: with a lax /I/. It's simply that Californians are more likely to use that form in everyday speech. In everyday speech, I would pronounce those as marcheen, falleen, luveen... And Darling and Darlene are pronounced the same, except for the stress.
>> I don't remember Californians having [Q] in WALKING...
The vowel sounds like [A] to me... <<
Remember, we Westerners are c-c merged. I can hardly distinguish them, and I've learned to distinguish them. When asking Midwesterners how they pronounce "cot" and "caught", it sounds to me like they are saying the same thing, but if I look at their lips when they say them, I can see that they round more for "caught".
>> [Q] is used in some words like ALL, CALL, TALL (because of the final dark L influence <<
Hmm. Actually I think I usually use something closer to [A] for those sometimes--but it depends on the position in the sentence. I don't think it depends much on the L.
>> DOLLAR /dAl@; rarely dQl@r <<
Hmm. One of the most noticible features of the Midwestern accent is how they pronunce "dollar", and when I call them on it, they tell me I make it sound like dole-er.
>> Canadian newscasters pronounce it always like [dQl@r], Californian newscasters prefer [dAl@r] <<
To tell you the truth, I doubt that it has to do with the difference between the Canadian shift and the California vowel shift. You would have to know where the people came from originally, how long they lived in Canada or California, and note their ages and gender, and whether they had a lot of voice training to eliminate their accents.
Whether someone has the shift at any given time has to do with lots of different factors.
>> California vowel shift influence...in which /A/ in all positions can be shifted to /Q/: the most frequent /Q/word is MOM [mQm] :) )) <<
You mean the most *noticible* word to you is "mom".
>> One thing I don't get about the Western pronunciation is the claim that ''there is no [Q] vowel in the West''; I think this is not true.
There is no /Q/ phoneme, but /Q/ can appear because of dark L influence, and because of the Californian vowel shift... <<
There is no distinct [Q] vowel. I perceive [A], and [Q], and even [a] and [O], as being the same "ah" vowel.
>> I've heard a women from WA state pronounce AWESOME with [Q] (that's funny because people from NYC pronounce it with this vowel, but it is both [Q] and /Q/ for them; I think for this women [Q] is /A/ in perception) <<
I've noticed that "awesome" tends to have a more rounded vowel. When we Westerners learn to read, we just think that "ah", "aw", "au" are just spelling variations for the same vowel. We neither produce, nor perceive a difference in those vowels.
Thank you Sarcastic Northwesterner for clarification.
I think it's by no means a West Coast only phenomenon.
I've read that people in WestPA (another CCmerged area) also have this change:
http://linguistlist.org/issues/13/13-2053.html
It's a very interesting phenomenon.
There's also a HILL-HEAL (near) merger (see the link above).
I don't know if Labov wrote something on lax and tense i's in NorthAmericanEnglish. It would be nice to read.
I think it's by no means a West Coast only phenomenon.
I've read that people in WestPA (another CCmerged area) also have this change:
http://linguistlist.org/issues/13/13-2053.html
It's a very interesting phenomenon.
There's also a HILL-HEAL (near) merger (see the link above).
I don't know if Labov wrote something on lax and tense i's in NorthAmericanEnglish. It would be nice to read.
In the song Mexican Radio By LA's Wall Of Voodoo you can hear
TALKING pronounced as TALKEEN
-I hear the talking of the dj-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT_0gPrzGA0
TALKING pronounced as TALKEEN
-I hear the talking of the dj-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT_0gPrzGA0
How do you pronounce SHOPPING?
a) shopping [ SApIN ] [ ʃɑpɪŋ ]
b) shoppin' [ SApIn ] [ ʃɑpɪn ]
c) shoppeen [ SApin ] [ ʃɑpin ]
d) none of the above.
a) shopping [ SApIN ] [ ʃɑpɪŋ ]
b) shoppin' [ SApIn ] [ ʃɑpɪn ]
c) shoppeen [ SApin ] [ ʃɑpin ]
d) none of the above.
I have found this: http://www.antimoon.com/forum/t361-45.htm
--One thing I have noticed is that native Californians tend to say the "ing" at the end of words like "een". "I was thinkeen of going shoppeen." --
by Pabz
-->> One thing I have noticed is that native Californians tend to say the "ing" at the end of words like "een". "I was thinkeen of going shoppeen."
<<
Ditto for the Pacific Northwest. Except "going" would also be affected -> "goeen".--
by PNW
--One thing I have noticed is that native Californians tend to say the "ing" at the end of words like "een". "I was thinkeen of going shoppeen." --
by Pabz
-->> One thing I have noticed is that native Californians tend to say the "ing" at the end of words like "een". "I was thinkeen of going shoppeen."
<<
Ditto for the Pacific Northwest. Except "going" would also be affected -> "goeen".--
by PNW
>>
How do you pronounce SHOPPING?
a) shopping [ SApIN ] [ ʃɑpɪŋ ]
b) shoppin' [ SApIn ] [ ʃɑpɪn ]
c) shoppeen [ SApin ] [ ʃɑpin ]
d) none of the above.
<<
I know where you got that particular survey. ;-) I can tell by the spacing of the [ ]. I posted it a long time ago on Englishforums. Glad to see you reviving it. ^_^
I pronounce it as letter c).
How do you pronounce SHOPPING?
a) shopping [ SApIN ] [ ʃɑpɪŋ ]
b) shoppin' [ SApIn ] [ ʃɑpɪn ]
c) shoppeen [ SApin ] [ ʃɑpin ]
d) none of the above.
<<
I know where you got that particular survey. ;-) I can tell by the spacing of the [ ]. I posted it a long time ago on Englishforums. Glad to see you reviving it. ^_^
I pronounce it as letter c).
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