ULTIMATE CHALLENGE

We all know (even if you don't like it) that Spanish and Italian are the two easiest languages in the world, they have perfect spellings, they're phonetical, always follow the rules, etc. so the question is, which one of these two is the easiest one??
(Please support your answer with facts.)

I would say Italian, first: because Spanish spelling isn't perfect, there are confusions between b and v, s, c and z, g and j, and ll and y. Also Spanish accentuation rules are more complicated because all words show how they're accented while in Italian only words with the accent on the last syllable carry a grave accent.

<< I would say Italian, first: because Spanish spelling isn't perfect, there are confusions between b and v, s, c and z, g and j, and ll and y. >>

You can still always tell how a Spanish word is pronounced just by looking at it, which doesn't hold for Italian. For an Italian word, you sometimes have to memorize where the stress goes, and whether a vowel is open or not. So I guess it's easier to spell an Italian word knowing its pronunciation, but easier to pronounce a Spanish word knowing its spelling.

<< Also Spanish accentuation rules are more complicated because all words show how they're accented while in Italian only words with the accent on the last syllable carry a grave accent. >>

Conversely, not all Italian words indicate how they're accented, so you don't always have accent marks to remind you. The Spanish accentuation rules aren't really that hard anyway.

- Kef

It´s funny that a Latin American defend Italian language and an American Spanish.

Anyway, If you pronounce like Standard Spanish accent, there is not problem with s, c and z. In theory the same with ll and y. You only need to know where is the b or the v (same pronounciation).

I think that Spanish is easier than Italian, but only a little. Study both!!

I would like to add that it also depends on the person's abilities. For example, the Italian plural is harder. BUT, to further defend Italian, all foreign words are masculine and are the same in plural as in singular while in Spanish you have to constantly visit the Diccionario Panhispánico de Dudas webpage, or a Consulta Lingüística to the RAE. I must accept that Spanish is easier because it doesn't have contractions and even though it's spoken in a larger area, there are less regional dialects.

"Anyway, If you pronounce like Standard Spanish accent"
From context I understood that by Standard Spanish you meant Spanish from Spain. If you used that expression to avoid an awkward one like 'Spanish Spanish' I would suggest expressions like 'Iberian Spanish', 'Peninsular Spanish' or, copying the English expression 'King's Spanish'. I don't think that's the Standard, maybe there isn't, but the z, s distinction is made by a minority.

The Spanish plural always ends in "S". The Italian plural always ends in either "I", or "E", so, it's a little tricky. I'm often mistaken by using the wrong vowel at the end of many words. Not just plurals.

<< From context I understood that by Standard Spanish you meant Spanish from Spain. If you used that expression to avoid an awkward one like 'Spanish Spanish' I would suggest expressions like 'Iberian Spanish', 'Peninsular Spanish' or, copying the English expression 'King's Spanish'. >>

I think I prefer "European Spanish". If I were speaking to somebody who has no knowledge of Spain or Spanish at all, "European Spanish" would get the idea across more easily than the other terms.

You could also say "Castilian", but I hate the use of the word "Castilian" to mean European Spanish. Plenty of people in South America call their own language "castellano". The word "Castilian" means nothing to most people who don't speak Spanish and aren't studying it, so it makes sense to me that it should have the same meaning in English as it does in Spanish. If it were a loanword that had truly entered the common English lexicon, there would be a stronger argument for it having a different meaning.

- Kef

I don't know what to say.

European Spanish is a good way to call it, I can't believe I didn't think about it.

For an English speaker Italian may be easier because it doesn't have the Ser/estar difference or the haber/tener difference. It's like in English only be and have.

I don't think it'd be easier just because of those two verbs, because in general Spanish is considerably easier, actually look at this survey, it clearly states that Spanish is by far the easiest language to learn.
http://www.language-learning-advisor.com/easiest-language-to-learn-survey.html

<< For an English speaker Italian may be easier because it doesn't have the Ser/estar difference or the haber/tener difference. >>

The ser/estar difference can be a little difficult at times, but the haber/tener difference has never given me any problems at all. The difference is quite clear: "haber" is used to indicate existence or used to form the perfect tenses, and "tener" is used to indicate possession or holding. There are no fuzzy borderline cases where it's difficult to decide which is correct; the mere fact that both are translated as "have" doesn't make matters complicated.

Ser/estar is difficult because the difference is harder to define. Even if you understand the essential differences, it's not always easy. Why do many Spanish speakers say "soy feliz" but "estoy contento"? Why "¿Dónde es la manifestación?", but "¿Dónde está el baño?" There is no reliable way to summarize the difference as you can with "haber" and "tener".

- Kef

The difference between Yo soy feliz and Yo estoy contento is also easy.

"Ser" is used when we are talking about a characteristic of the person: Yo soy abogado, yo soy presidente, yo soy feliz, yo soy rubio, etc

"Estar" is used when we are talking about a present feeling: yo estoy contento (now, but perhaps tomorrow not).


The other meaning:

¿Donde es la manifiestación? Here "ser" is used with the meaning of existence of something immaterial, a meeting, a party

¿Donde esta el baño? Her "estar" is used with the meaning of existence of something material, a table, a chair, etc

<< The difference between Yo soy feliz and Yo estoy contento is also easy.

"Ser" is used when we are talking about a characteristic of the person: Yo soy abogado, yo soy presidente, yo soy feliz, yo soy rubio, etc

"Estar" is used when we are talking about a present feeling: yo estoy contento (now, but perhaps tomorrow not). >>

No, "soy feliz" can be used to mean "I am happy (right now)", rather than "I am a happy person (in general)". Some people do say "estoy feliz" (especially in Latin America, in my understanding), but others consider it to be an error. (I imagine that in some dialects, "estoy feliz" is so common that using "ser" instead would be considered an error...) The supposed rule is that, for whatever reason, "ser" is always used with "feliz".

And yes, it is easy enough to grasp the difference between "dónde es la manifestación" and "dónde está el baño" when it's explained, but my point is that before they have that explanation, a native English speaker is unlikely to have any idea that these sentences would use a different verb. That's my point... you can't easily cover every case like that in a brief discussion of ser versus estar, nor is it easy to keep every single rule in mind when speaking or writing. By contrast, it's trivial to explain the difference between haber and tener.

- Kef

<<No, "soy feliz" can be used to mean "I am happy (right now)", rather than "I am a happy person (in general)". Some people do say "estoy feliz" (especially in Latin America, in my understanding), but others consider it to be an error. (I imagine that in some dialects, "estoy feliz" is so common that using "ser" instead would be considered an error...) The supposed rule is that, for whatever reason, "ser" is always used with "feliz". >>
For me as spaniard there is a difference between 'soy feliz' and 'estoy feliz'.
When i say 'soy feliz' i'm identifiying my life with hapiness. Yo = Feliz.
But when i say estoy feliz i'm not saying soy feliz but i'm happy for some reason. For instance, estoy feliz por vestir la camiseta del barça.
As for Why "¿Dónde es la manifestación?", but "¿Dónde está el baño?" .
Because the sense 7 of ser is : Suceder, acontecer, tener lugar. ¿Dónde fue la boda? El partido fue a las seis. So you can say ¿Dónde tiene lugar la manifestación?
and the sense 1 of estar is: 1. intr. Dicho de una persona o de una cosa: Existir, hallarse en este o aquel lugar, situación, condición o modo actual de ser. So you can say ¿Donde se halla el baño?

I think the problem is that it is not well taught because many rules are given and they don't teach the real difference.

Can you explain why you only use one verb when you say:
I am tickled pink.
I am Greek.

actually italian uses two verbs that have the same meaning which is "to
be". how about " STO pensando" AND " chi E?, SONO io!! here italian have used the verb "STARE" and "ESSERE"
conjugation of stare
sto(I)
stai ( you)
sta(she/he/it)
stiamo(we)
state( you all)
stanno( they)
essere:
io) sono I am
(tu) sei you are (fam.)
(Lei) è you are (form.)
(lui) è he is (loro) sono they are (form.)
(noi) siamo we are
(voi) siete you are (fam.)
(Loro) sono you are (form.)
(loro) sono they are (form.)