I speak two stigmatized dialects of English

Gwest   Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:24 pm GMT
<<However, though, it completely changes the tone of the sentence by shifting emphasis from "associated with a location" to "which...>

Please tell me that you are not a native English speaker, Travis. "However" followed by "though"?
Divvy   Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:26 pm GMT
<It should have been quite obvious from context,>

Me Tarzan. You Jane.

Quite obvious who is whom, but is it good English?
Free gift   Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:28 pm GMT
Yes, a dialect is a speech variety associated with a location.
Travis   Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:52 pm GMT
>>Please tell me that you are not a native English speaker, Travis. "However" followed by "though"?<<

No, English is my native language (and the only language which I am anywhere close to being fluent in). Why would you think that I don't speak English natively (without having heard speech samples, that is)?
Travis   Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:53 pm GMT
>>Why do you need the "which someone speaks"? Isn't it clear that a speech variety would be spoken?<<

Yes, that sounds very redudant out of context. In context, though, the function of "which someone speaks" was to link "speech variety" to some hypothetical person to which the term "accent" was also being related.
Travis   Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:55 pm GMT
>>Quite obvious who is whom, but is it good English?<<

Who decides what is "good English" and what is not other than native speakers, and even then, can't they only truly speak for their own dialects (which in turn may have internal variation beyond their own particular idiolects)?
Gwest   Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:58 pm GMT
<No, English is my native language (and the only language which I am anywhere close to being fluent in). Why would you think that I don't speak English natively (without having heard speech samples, that is)?>

How would speech samples confirm anything?
Travis   Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:00 am GMT
No, rather the opposite - I have had multiple people seriously doubt that I am a native English-speaker from hearing them.
freegift   Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:02 am GMT
"Yes, a dialect is a speech variety, which someone speaks, and is associated with a location and an accent."

And grammar, vocabulary, etc.
M56   Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:03 am GMT
<No, rather the opposite - I have had multiple people seriously doubt that I am a native English-speaker from hearing them. >


Trav, that sentence is terrible. What the hell does it mean?
Travis   Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:13 am GMT
>>Trav, that sentence is terrible. What the hell does it mean?<<

And just why are you spending time trying to "correct" my English here?

On that note, my guess is that you're simply being tripped up by "have had .. doubt". I'm not going to bother explaining the particulars of the usage of "have" as the finite verb here (it's an idiomatic usage that I'm surprised you don't get). As for "doubt", that is just an infinitive which is part of the complex object "multiple people seriously doubt that ...". As for "that I am a native English-speaker", it in turn is a subordinate clause embedded in the complex object.

Can you not understand anything that strays outside of the lines of formal book English? Anyways, I am writing in a forum here, not writing a paper to be published...
M56   Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:19 am GMT
<And just why are you spending time trying to "correct" my English here? <

Because there are many nonnatives here who may be influenced by your words.

And no, it's not the "have had". Think. Look. Be honest. It's a terrible sentence.
M56   Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:21 am GMT
<Can you not understand anything that strays outside of the lines of formal book English? >

Hey, dude, c my English here.
ESL student   Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:23 am GMT
<<Anyways, I am writing in a forum here, not writing a paper to be published... >>

Yet this forum's title contains "learn English effectively", right?
Travis   Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:37 am GMT
>>Because there are many nonnatives here who may be influenced by your words. <<

I am not an English teacher, and I have little interest in serving as an example for "correct" English. My interest here is in English linguistics and especially English dialects, not the teaching of English as a second language. And on that note, I will not change things ranging from the transcriptions and usage examples that I provide to how I myself write simply for the sake of eliminating things outside Standard English (and English standard varieties) lest non-native speakers pick them up.