"Kahn"

Frudd   Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:14 pm GMT
I appear to have to low distribution phoneme in my speech /a:/ that occurs before nasals in my speech. "Kahn" doesn't rhyme with "ban" for me being /ka:n/, likewise "calm" /ka:m/ doesn't rhyme with "jam" /d_Zam/.
Lazar   Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:38 pm GMT
I'm curious; could you tell us a bit more about your dialect? For example, what vowel do you use in "father"?

In my speech, "Kahn" and "calm" both use my "father" vowel, [A:]. "Ban" and "jam" both use [{].
Frudd   Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:41 pm GMT
"father" has [e]. It shares the vowel in "name", "gave" etc.
Frudd   Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:46 pm GMT
"ah", "ha", "haha", and "baa" likewise have [a:] and don't rhyme with "spa".
furrykef   Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:56 pm GMT
I can't comment on pronunciation, but I'll note that "Kahn" is usually spelled "Khan", if you're referring to Genghis Khan and the like. But some people do have the surname "Kahn", with that spelling.
Lazar   Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:56 pm GMT
Wow, your dialect sounds really interesting. I've never heard of anyone using /e/ in "father", or having different vowels in "baa" and "spa". Could you tell us where you're from (at least roughly), and give us a description of your phonology?
Frudd   Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:02 pm GMT
I'm from Scotland. I'll give you guys a description of my phonology later, I've got to get going.
Travis   Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:22 pm GMT
>>Wow, your dialect sounds really interesting. I've never heard of anyone using /e/ in "father", or having different vowels in "baa" and "spa". Could you tell us where you're from (at least roughly), and give us a description of your phonology?<<

I would guess that having /e/ in "father" would be Scots influence upon English, for lack of any more information here.
Guest   Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:41 pm GMT
<I would guess that having /e/ in "father" would be Scots influence upon English, for lack of any more information here. >

You've never heard "fayther" (father)?
Guest   Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:42 pm GMT
Or "feather" (father)?
Guest   Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:07 pm GMT
>>You've never heard "fayther" (father)?<<
>>Or "feather" (father)?<<

Nope - I've never heard pronunciations of "father" with [e] or [E] ever, even though English or Scots dialects with such are not surprising, considering that Late Middle English /fa:D@r/ "should" have [eI] or [e] today.
Travis   Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:16 pm GMT
The above post is by me.
Frudd   Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:23 pm GMT
<<I was just reading about that in *Accents of English* the other day. It is the expected development of father, with /a:/ in Middle English. There are a lot of Scots who lack an opposition between /a/ and /A:/, using [a_"] for both. Frudd, do you have the same vowel in 'start' as in 'trap'? Or do you use the vowel of 'Kahn' in the former?>>

My "start" is /start/.
Frudd   Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:28 pm GMT
My "start" shares the same vowel as in "fad".
Frudd   Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:46 am GMT
<<For example, do herd-heard-word-bird-stirred rhyme?>>

"herd" /hErd/

"heard" /hErd/

"word" /wVrd/

"bird" /bIrd/

"stirred" /stIr(I)d/

Not all of them rhyme.