Uses of the subjunctive in Romance languages

And what exactly are your reasons for saying Spanish is more simple than Italian? I am not agreeing or disagreeing, I'd simply like to hear your point of view on this matter.

Per quali ragioni hai detto tu che lo spagnolo è più semplice del italiano? Su il tuo argomento resto neutrale, ma sono interessata di capire la tua prospettiva.

Here's an important one that I forgot. In Spanish, subordinate clauses in the future, introduced by a word such as "cuando" (when), take the subjunctive.

Dímelo cuando *llegues*.
Tell it to me when you arrive.

I think French and Italian use the future tense in this construction.

- Kef

That's funny.
In Brazilian Portuguese it's easier


I told him to do it.
Eu falei pra ele fazer (isso).


It's good that you are happy.
E' bom voce^ estar feliz.


It's true that it is big.
E' verdade que isso e' grande.

Falsehood:
It's not true that it is big.
Nao e' verdade que isso e' grande.

Brazilian Portuguese tends to simply verb conjugations a lot. Maybe European Portuguese keeps the use of the subjuntive in these cases.

>Dímelo cuando *llegues*.
>Tell it to me when you arrive.

Dimmi quando arrivi. (present indicative)
[but it's better: "Quando arrivi, dimmelo." because it's more kind and less imperative]

Dimmi quando arriverai. (future indicative)


In italian you can use present or future tense.
But there's a little difference between their meanings:
- if I want to know NOW when you arrive (and you haven't arrived yet) , then I use the future tense.
- if I want that you warn me after you have arrived, then I use the present tense.

@furrykef

If you have a desire, a wish, you use the IMPERFECT SUBJUNCTIVE:

I wish you were here. = Vorrei che fossi qui.


If you want that something has to be done , you use the PRESENT SUBJUNCTIVE:

I want you to go. = Voglio che te ne vada.

It's true that it is big.
E' verdade que isso e' grande.

Falsehood:
It's not true that it is big.
Nao e' verdade que isso e' grande.
--------------------------
Spanish:
Es verdad que es grande.

No es verdad que es grande.

So... which one's easier? obviously Spanish, and way clearer as well.

"Spanish:
Es verdad que es grande.

No es verdad que es grande.

So... which one's easier? obviously Spanish, and way clearer as well."

It is better to say : no es verdad que *sea* grande. When you negate the prior assumption (ser grande), it becomes hypothetical to you , hence subjunctive is introduced, while if you agree with the statement you have to use indicative mood: es cierto que es grande.

Guest - if you had read the first post, you would have seen that the original sentences were "Es cierto que es grande" and "No es cierto que sea grande". The Brazilian Portuguese example you cited doesn't change the verb; it only prefixed the whole sentence with "não". So if you're looking for simplicity, it looks like Brazilian Portuguese is actually the winner there.

- Kef

This is an interesting thread^^
In European Portuguese it would be:

>Third-person command:
>Le dije que lo *haga*. (subjunctive)
>I told him to do it.
Disse-lhe que o fizesse. (Imperfect Past subjunctive)

>Subjective evaluation:
>Es bueno que *seas* feliz. (subjunctive)
>It's good that you are happy.
E' bom que sejas feliz. (Present subjunctive)

>Truth:
>Es cierto que *es* grande. (indicative)
>It's true that it is big.
E' verdade que e' grande. ( Present Indicative)


>Falsehood:
>No es cierto que *sea* grande. (subjunctive)
>It's not true that it is big.
Não e' verdade que seja grande. (Present subjunctive)


>Hypothetical:
>Si yo *fuera* presidente, bajaría los impuestos. (imperfect subjunctive)
>If I were president, I would lower taxes.
Se eu fosse presidente, #baixava# os impostos. (Imperfect subjunctive) (#Imperfect Past Indicative)


Dímelo cuando *llegues*.
Tell it to me when you arrive.
Diz-me quando chegares. (Future subjunctive)

About the "pienso que...", in European Portuguese it is also followed by the indicative, unless you start in the past, like:

>I think it is going to rain.
Penso que vai chover. (Present Indicative)

>I *thought* it was going to rain.
Pensei que fosse chover. (Imperfect Past Subjunctive)



<<Present subjunctive: che io mangi

Perfect subjunctive: che io abbia mangiato

Imperfect subjunctive: che io mangiassi

Pluperfect subjunctive: che io avessi mangiato >>

In EPortuguese there are 3 subjunctive, Present, Imperfect Past and Future.
Examples with the same verb "eat", comer:

>I hope you eat a lot.
Espero que comas muito. (Present subjunctive)

>I thought you ate a lot.
Pensei que comesses muito. (Imperfect Past sub)

>If you eat now, you wont be hungry later.
Se comeres agora, depois não vais ter fome. (Future sub)


So there is no Perfect or PlusPerfect sub in Portuguese; instead, the Past Participle (verb + adjective) is used, aggregated to another verb (think it is the same in Spanish?):

>Perfect subjunctive: che io abbia mangiato
>That I had eaten (?)
Que eu tinha *comido*. (Imperfect Past Ind) + (Past Participle)


>Pluperfect subjunctive: che io avessi mangiato
>That I (have) had eaten (? lol)
Que eu tivesse *comido*. (Imperfect Past Sub) + (Past Participle)