dormir, partir, salir in spanish vs. the french dormir,par

someoneintheworld   Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:51 pm GMT
i wondering how come both french and spanish have identically ir verbs like dormir, partir, salir in spanish vs dormir, partir, sortir in french? do ou know it?
Franco   Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:20 pm GMT
Because they have similar origins, clearly.
Guest   Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:33 pm GMT
That's because both languages descend from Latin. Maybe it's just a (happy) coincidence that these verbs have identical "~ir" endings, but still:

Latin. dormire
French. dormir
Spanish. dormir

Lt. partire
Fr. partir
Sp. partir

Lt. salire
Fr. sortir
Sp. salir
furrykef   Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:05 am GMT
Italian also has all three verbs in their original Latin form: dormire, partire, and salire. Though my dictionary says that in Italian, "salire" means "go up" or "rise", whereas in Spanish, "salir" means "go out" or "leave".

- Kef
Guest   Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:11 am GMT
Shouldn't "go up" or "rise" be "subire" in Latin?
furrykef   Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:56 am GMT
I have no idea. Meanings do change over time, and they don't change the same way in different languages...
Guest   Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:16 am GMT
In Latin Salire doesn't mean salir (like in Spanish) but to jump, to leap , to dance.
In Italian salire means to go up like Spanish subir and French monter
Guest   Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:32 am GMT
French - Occitan - Catalan

dormir - dormir - dormir
partir - partir - partir
sortir - sortir - sortir
Guest   Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:41 am GMT
French - Occitan - Catalan

dormir - dormir - dormir
partir - partir - partir
sortir - sortir - sorti

Nothing strange

These three languages are the closest ones among latin language
greg   Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:51 am GMT
arpitan → <sortir> = {sortir ; ausgehen}
castillan → <surtir> = {fournir ; versorgen} → Fr <assortir>
catalan → <sortir> = {sortir ; ausgehen}
ancien français → <sortir> = {tirer au sort, choisir ; auslosen, wählen}
français → <sortir> = {(fuori)uscire ; ausgehen}
gascon → <sortir> = {sortir ; ausgehen}
italien → <sortire> = {obtenir ; erzielen}
latin → <surtiri> = {tirer au sort ; auslosen}
ligure → <sciurtî> = {sortir ; ausgehen}
occitan → <sortir> = {sortir ; ausgehen}
piedmontais → <seurte> <surtì> = {sortir ; ausgehen}
poitevin → <sorti> = {sortir ; ausgehen}
portugais → <sortir> = {fournir ; versorgen} → Fr <assortir>
provençal → <sortir> = {sortir ; ausgehen}
wallon → <sôrti> = {sortir ; ausgehen}

castillan → <salir> = {sortir ; ausgehen}
ancien français → <saillir> <salir> = {jaillir, danser ; spritzen, tanzen}
français → <saillir> = {sporgare, montare ; hervorspringen, decken}
gascon → <salhir> = {sortir ; ausgehen}
italien → <salire> = {monter ; einsteigen}
portugais → <sair> = {sortir ; ausgehen}
Sergio   Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:20 pm GMT
Hi Furrykef,

There are some tricky false friends amongst these three languages:

Spanish Italian French English
Salir uscire sortir go out
Sufrir subire subir undergo
Subir salire monter go up
Surtir sortire fournir provide
Guest   Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:07 pm GMT
"Nothing strange

These three languages are the closest ones among latin language "

No. Portuguese and Spanish share more similarities than French and Occitan/Catalan, not to mention Brazilian Portuguese and Spanish, which share even more degree of mutal intelligibility( 90%)
K. T.   Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:35 pm GMT
I suspect Occitan is closer to French than Portuguese is to Spanish; however, I agree that P and S are very close.
Guest   Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:38 pm GMT
Maybe franco-provençal is closer to French than Spanish and Portuguese, but not Occitan . There are even some varieties like Gascon that are really as close to Spanish as to French.
Guest   Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:54 pm GMT
"Surtir sortire fournir provide"
nobody uses sortire in Italian, the common verb is rifornire, fornire
Sortire means in modern italian to get, to achieve..
il tentativo non ha sortito alcun effetto = The attempt didn't achieve any effect