What exactly is the nasal sound?

mac   Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:16 am GMT
When people describe French and Portuguese, they mention the nasal sound. What exactly is that? Can anyone give some examples. I'm a native English speaker and long time Spanish student, so I'm not really familiar with this sound. Thanks.
mac   Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:38 am GMT
Doesn't sound very attractive. I really don't know, because I have had no contact with Portuguese and very little with French.
Guest   Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:43 am GMT
Try to speak with your mouth closed. Imagine that the only way sound can exit is by directing your voice towards the nose. Yell with your mouth closed. That will be your first experience of a nasal sound.
Mallorquí.   Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:37 am GMT
Attrape un bon rhume et tu sauras ce que c'est que de prononcer des sons nasaux.
greg   Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:30 am GMT
mac : « When people describe French and Portuguese, they mention the nasal sound. What exactly is that? ».

Tu parles sans doute des sons *vocaliques* nasaux qu'on appelle les *voyelles nasales*. Car il existe des sons *consonantiques* nasaux dans pratiquement toutes les langues → les *consonnes nasales*.

Exemples de consonnes nasales :
allemand → <kommen> → /kOm@n/ = /kɔmən/ → 2 consonnes nasales : /m/ & /n/
anglais → <sing> → /sIN/ = /sɪŋ/ → 1 consonne nasale : /N/ = /ŋ/
castillan → <niña> → /niJa/ = /niɲa/ → 2 consonne nasales : /n/ & /J/ = /ɲ/
roumain → <mic> → /mik/ → 1 consonne nasale : /m/.

Les voyelles nasales sont en fait *oronasales* : la colonne d'air expulsée par les poumons via les cordes vocales s'échappe par le nez mais aussi par la bouche. Pour les voyelles orales, l'air ne transite que par la bouche, jamais par les fosses nasales.






mac : « I'm a native English speaker and long time Spanish student, so I'm not really familiar with this sound. »

En fait, tu dois connaître — voire utiliser — les voyelles nasales sans le savoir → certaines variantes de l'anglais d'Amérique du Nord regorgent de voyelles nasales. Personne ne s'en rend compte car la nasalité de ces voyelles est phonétique mais pas phonémique. Par exemple il n'est pas rare d'entendre An <can't> prononcé /k{~t/ = /kæ̃t/.
greg   Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:36 am GMT
« Guest » : « Press your nose with your fingers and try to speak. »

C'est justement ce qu'il ne faut *PAS* faire pour obtenir une voyelle (oro)nasale en partant d'une voyelle orale. Si tu dis /i/, /a/, /o/, /u/ (etc) en te pinçant le nez, les voyelles émises restent inchangées. En d'autre termes, tu peux te balader avec une pince à linge sur le nez toute la journée, jamais tu ne parviendras à nasaliser une voyelle orale...
zatsu   Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:19 am GMT
Think this is a very hard thing to describe, isn't it? You learn by imitating and repeating...


"A nasal vowel is a vowel that is produced with a lowering of the velum so that air escapes both through nose as well as the mouth."

For instance, I'm not aware of this. I don't think the air escapes through my nose when "producing a nasal vowel"...


Also, shouldn't the Spanish "ñ" be considered nasal? And the same for the French descending word "champagne"?
mac   Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:41 am GMT
Ah, I'm I think I get it now. Thanks guys.
zatsu   Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:11 am GMT
<<Portuguese and French have nasal *vowels*, which are much rarer.>>

Aha, OK, I missed that point.


Well, I know I'm pronouncing the nasals right, so I guess I just didn't notice the air thing... interesting.
greg   Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:45 am GMT
zatsu : « For instance, I'm not aware of this. I don't think the air escapes through my nose when "producing a nasal vowel"... ».

Pour te convaincre du contraire, livre-toi à un expérience très simple. Approche le dos de ta main vers ton nez, et prononce une voyelle nasale quelconque. Automatiquement tu sentiras les deux colonnes d'air expulsé via les fosses nasales heurter le dos de ta main.

Si tu ne sens pas l'air expulsé par le nez venir en contact de ta main, cela veut dire que tu prononces une voyelle orale au lieu d'une voyelle nasale. Le test est imparable et ne souffre aucune exception : c'est un moyen simple et efficace de vérifier quelque chose que tu ne peux pas voir → l'abaissement du voile de ton palais de sorte que l'air expulsé par tes poumons s'échappe par ta bouche *ET* par ton nez. Voir le schéma suivant : http://m.antoniotti.free.fr/images/image14.gif .
Guest   Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:01 am GMT
Nasal sounds can differ from language to language also. For example the nasals in American English are not the same as the nasals in French; and neither are the same as the nasals in Portuguese.

I agree with Brennus. French nasal vowels are the hardest to pronounce even though it's got just three different nasal vowels nowadays. In my view, Portuguese nasal vowels are easier but the portuguese language has five nasal vowels. The other european languages which has nasal vowels is Polish. It should have two, but I actually don't know how they are pronounced
cornu   Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:09 pm GMT
nowadays in Polish the nasal vowel get often lost, you see "ą" but you say "ow"or "om", "ę" becomes "ew", "en" or simply "e" at the end of word
Xie   Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:16 pm GMT
Try to speak with your mouth closed. Imagine that the only way sound can exit is by directing your voice towards the nose. Yell with your mouth closed. That will be your first experience of a nasal sound.

>> Yeah, it appears in some Chinese languages, too. Even for ordinary people who don't learn foreign languages at all, nasal sounds are quite natural and may be easier than trills... (I myself don't speak a language with such sounds at all).
Guest   Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:30 pm GMT
For an explanation of nasal souds, see here: http://www.u-aizu.ac.jp/~steeve/annual95.html
Guest   Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:52 pm GMT
I think Polish has nasalized vowels, not pure nasal vowels like (Brazilian) Portuguese and/or French. I think Canadian French is less nasal-sounding, the same is true of Continental Portuguese...Brazilian Portuguese and French sound very nasal.