What WORKS, and really made a huge difference for you?

ESB   Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:45 pm GMT
There's a lot of study guides and workbooks on the Web, like "Lose Your Accent in 28 Days" etc.

But is there a program that you experimented with or completed, that really made a huge difference for you, to the extent that people are "wow'ed" by your newly-acquired perfect American pronunciation? Was it some life experience, or some study guide, that you specifically recommend?

For example, one person told me, "If you want to lose your accent, you need to tape news broadcasts on TV and tape your own voice and compare the two, and keep doing that until you sound American." So, has anyone tried that? Any results?

Please share your background and current accent status, i.e. whether others can recognize that you're non-American-born. Thanks
Iain   Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:23 pm GMT
Very few adults are lucky enough to be able to learn a foreign language with a 'natural' accent. It seems that beyond the age of around ten the human brain begins to significantly lose its receptiveness to 'new' sounds. In other words any sounds that we haven't been exposed to by then will end up being matched by the nearest sound that we have in our own range.
That doesn't mean that hard work can't improve poor 'pronunciation' but it's unlikely that a person will completely lose all traces of 'accent'. As well as working on individual sounds (vowels, dipthongs, consonant clusters), exercises focussing on intonation and stress patterns are often more useful than focussing on individual words when it comes to 'sounding natural.
It is often possible to sound like a native speaker for short bursts of speech: often in ready-made phrase like 'I don't know', 'Nice to meet you' or 'Get out of here!'. (for example, people often sound 'native' when they answer the phone).

I know it will depend on individual circumstances (if you are a spy for example), but is there anything really 'wrong' with a French person sounding French or a Japanese person sounding Japanese, provided pronunciation is clear enough to allow easy comprehension?
Guest   Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:02 pm GMT
Try "ALG" method. Search this term on google. They say that if you listen to your target language as many as 1000 hours of understanding without speaking an utterance -- you'll end up as a native speaker of that language. They say that early production will create a kind of ceiling on your speaking pronunciation that is hard to get rid of. There is nothing wrong with your brain's ability, it is just that early speaking without proper amount of listening being done to your target language is the thing that you have to take care of. Don't you notice that with some extentive listening you see some improvement in your pronunciation than prior to this. If your brain is not receptive to imitating sounds of your target language then how you can see improvement in your pronunciation by doing some constant listening. Also, there is another technique that is suggested by language experts is "shadowing". Speaking along with a narrator. It is normally done with audiobooks.
ESB   Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:31 pm GMT
Listening is not enough.

I have many friends who watch a lot of American TV and socialize a lot with their American peers, yet still have an accent. Moreover, there are married couples where the wife or the husband is foreign-born, and they've been living together for a long while, yet the spouse still retains an accent.

Clearly there must be something more to it. People rely on the patterns of pronunciation that they've had for a long time, and think it's pretty accurate, but they don't hear themselves when they talk.
Guest   Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:13 am GMT
<<Clearly there must be something more to it. People rely on the patterns of pronunciation that they've had for a long time, and think it's pretty accurate, but they don't hear themselves when they talk. >>

They say that early production will create a kind of ceiling on your speaking pronunciation that is hard to get rid of. It means that you invent your own sort of pronunciation if you do not hear the sounds correctly right from the beginning. In order to prevent this, no speaking is suggested till going through 1000 hours of understanding input.

<<I have many friends who watch a lot of American TV and socialize a lot with their American peers, yet still have an accent. Moreover, there are married couples where the wife or the husband is foreign-born, and they've been living together for a long while, yet the spouse still retains an accent. >>

Did they use to listen to stuff for a long period of time without speaking for example the whole year?People will always have accents if they start speaking early. That's why it is so important to listen a lot before going on to open your mouth.
Jasper   Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:46 pm GMT
<<Also, there is another technique that is suggested by language experts is "shadowing". Speaking along with a narrator. It is normally done with audiobooks.>>

This is the same method KT and I have referred to as "modelling"; I'm here to tell you it works extremely well, but it does take a great deal of time.

Guest, a websearch of the ALG method brought up nothing relating to language; are you sure you have the spelling right? Alternately, what's the full name of the ALG method? It's a method I'd never heard of before.
Mitch   Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:18 pm GMT
ALG is the abbreviation for "Automatic Language Growth," a system developed by the late Dr. J. Marvin Brown to teach Thai to foreigners in Thailand. Their website is:

http://www.algworld.com/

There is a lot of information there on the approach, history, principles, etc.

If you want to read a good summary of the method, there is a long e-mail on another site from Marvin Brown (he originally called it "The Listening Method"):

http://users.skynet.be/beatola/wot/marvin.html

It's a fascinating idea, if you can stick with it.
ESB   Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:39 pm GMT
Well, it may be a good and interesting method, but how can it be taken advantage of by the average person living in the country?

I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who wants results. My situation is very common, and I want something that would work for me, and many others like me -- i.e. "95%-ers" that are "almost there" and maybe even grew up in this country, but the accent remains.
beneficii   Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:55 pm GMT
ESB,

"Listening is not enough.

I have many friends who watch a lot of American TV _and socialize a lot with their American peers, yet still have an accent._ Moreover, there are married couples where the wife or the husband is foreign-born, and they've been living together for a long while, yet the spouse still retains an accent.

Clearly there must be something more to it. People rely on the patterns of pronunciation that they've had for a long time, and think it's pretty accurate, but they don't hear themselves when they talk."

----

For the part that is surrounded by "_" Guest already has an answer:

----

"They say that if you listen to your target language as many as 1000 hours of understanding _without speaking an utterance_ -- you'll end up as a native speaker of that language."

----

"They say that early production will create a kind of ceiling on your speaking pronunciation that is hard to get rid of. "

----

"There is nothing wrong with your brain's ability, _it is just that early speaking without proper amount of listening being done to your target language_ is the thing that you have to take care of."
ESB   Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:22 pm GMT
OK. So what instructions can I, as a 27-year-old guy, get from this advice?

That I should listen more, and talk less? For how long? Do I need to record myself every once in a while?
Jasper   Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:44 pm GMT
Mitch, the method sound interesting, but impractical in terms of a realistic goal, unless you live in Thailand.
Guest   Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:06 am GMT
<That I should listen more, and talk less? For how long? Do I need to record myself every once in a while?>

This method requires ample amount of patience. It is neccessary not to speak until completion of the required hours. If you listen to interesting content for 7-8 hours a day till the next six months, you will notice the results. If other methods are not producing desirable results then you should give it a try. No speaking. No self -talking. No tape recording. All you have got to do is to listen. It is a perfect method for lazy learners. No dauting efforts are involved.
Guest   Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:08 am GMT
*daunting
Guest   Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:21 pm GMT
Listening to children speak is one way that I found REALLY helped me improve my pronunciation of German, and I assume that same would go for learning English. For example I did not at first realize that the German letter L is pronounced very differently than ours and it is hard to hear by listening to most adults speak, but pronouncing the sound incorrectly can lead to confusion. For example the German word "Säule" (column - plural) is pronounced like "Zoy-Leh" but when native English speakers attempt to prononce it Germans here only "Säue" (female pig - plural) They simply do not hear our L which is a darker more guttural sound than their palatalized L. When we say "table" it tends to sound a lot like "tabo" where a German would pronounce it as "Teh-Behl". If you listen to a child speak you can here this. Another example is the world "gold" which is the same in both English and German, however in German is it pronounced like "Goy-ald" and in English closer to "Goad". When you listen to children speak it is (for me at least) much easier to hear how individual sounds are constructed in the language.
Guest   Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:24 pm GMT
Sorry, I mixed up "here" and "hear" in my last post. That is what relying too heavily on spellcheck can do.