COCKNEY SOUNDS AMERICAN!!!

Pete   Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:24 am GMT
Hello Everyone.

Look, I've read lots of articles about English accents and sort of thing, saying that Cockney English is the best ever, that is nice, even sexy!!!. However, I don't see any sexy thing in cockney accent. have a look at this:

Pass me the bottle of water, now!

cockney: Pass me da bo'l a wa'a, n(ae)w!

If you replace the glottal stops (') for that flap sound so common in American, you'll find this a bit familiar. It sounds utterly American!!

In my opinion, COCKNEY is just a bizarre yankee accent spoken in London, just that. What do you think about this. I prefer Estuary English, or so forth
Travis   Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:41 am GMT
Well, not exactly, as Cockney is non-rhotic, whereas most non-Atlantic North American English dialects are rhotic, as Cockney has postvocalic lateral vocalization, where North American English dialects only have velarized postvocalic laterals, as North American English dialects, especially away from the eastern seaboard of the US, generally have had a number of vowel phonemic mergers which Cockney, to my knowledge lacks, amongst probably many other things that could be listed, had I more knowledge of Cockney.
Pete   Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:24 am GMT
Oh, That's true. I had forgotten about the non-rhotic feature of cockney. In fact that's just enough like to notice the diference between most English accents and General American.

Now I think you're absolutly right, but I still have the strange feeling that Cockney is not like the rest of English Accents. I don't know why it sounds quite American to me.

Haha this is ridiculous I know it, but I can't help it.
Kirk   Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:40 am GMT
Also, Cockney has seen several vowel shifts which have little or no correspondence with anything in North America. I think even if you replaced glottal stops with taps, replaced postvocalic lateral vocalization with the expected velarized alveolar lateral approximant and added rhoticity it'd still sound far different from any North American dialect simply due to the vowels.
Lazar   Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:50 am GMT
Two of the most distinctive vowel shifts in Cockney are [aI] < [AI] and [EI] < [{I].
Lazar   Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:51 am GMT
The second one should be [eI] < [{I].
Brennus   Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:35 am GMT
The U.S. Southern accent resembles some Cockney pronunciations a little bit. For example, I knew a man from Georgia once who said "toim" for 'time' which struck me as Cockney-like. Yet, officially there are no Cockney accents in the U.S. or Canada from what I've read. This is mainly because very few Cockneys immigrated to America in colonial times. Most Cockney immigration went to Australia.
Tom K.   Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:50 pm GMT
I don't think it sounds American. If it did, I wouldn't have such hard time understanding it.
Damian   Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:29 pm GMT
They'd die laughing dahn in the East End if told their Cockney accents sounded American! Cockney has changed in character in the last few decades according to a web site (mostly under the influence of Estuary and encroaching Essexspeak...as in that lad from Leytonestone, David Beckham).

Does anybody seriously think that Becks sounds anything like an American?
Rick Johnson   Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:40 pm GMT
Can't say it's a similarity I would ever notice. The first word is a totally different pronunciation. Pass rhymes with ass in the US. Pass rhymes with arse in Cockney. If you had said Australian there are far greater similarities, but US accents and Cockney are polar opposites in almost every way.

<< "toim" for 'time'>>

Dubliners often pronounce the word time as toim, as to a certain extent do people from Birmingham (think of Ozzy Osbourne's pronunciation).
Adam   Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:01 pm GMT
Americans often think the London accent sounds like the Australian accent.
Chris   Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:07 pm GMT
Actually, I always thought that Cockney sounded a lot like Australian English. In fact, In JC Wells' book "Accents of English" the Australian accent is said to resemble Cockney speech. This is in the section where he describes Australian English, not Cockney English. I remember one time when I asked one of the trainers at my former gym what part of Australia he was from (this was in New York - in the US) and he replied that he was not from Australia. I then said: "Oh, you must be from London then". He said yes. I told him his accent sounded "London" (although it was broad Cockney). I did not tell him that his accent sounded "Cockney" because I am assuming that that word has some negative connotations (especially when used by a non-Cockney). Actually, I kind of suspected all along that his accent was Cockney but I wasn't really sure and as I felt uncomfortable telling someone that he speaks Cockney, I instead mentioned Australia hoping to arrive at the truth by process of elimination.

Anyway, Cockney does share certain features with RP which it does NOT share with GenAm. They are as follows:

1) Use of broad 'a' in the "bath" words
2) Use of short 'o' in the "lot" words
3) It is non-rhotic
4) The "goat" vowel is more rounded.
5) The "goose" vowel is more rounded.

I do not find that Cockney resembles GenAm at all - not even remotely.

There are, however, certain features which RP shares with GenAm but which it does not share with Cockney.

1) The "kit" vowel (which has a strange pronunciation in Cockney)
2) The "face" vowel (which in Cockney sounds almost like "fice")
3) The "price" vowel (which in Cockney sounds more like "proice")

With regard to intervocalic 't' in unstresed syllables - well, that is a tough one. In the broadest Cockney these t's are glottal stops but in less broad Cockney they are sometimes voiced. In addition, these t's are tapped in GenAm English, but in very careful speech they are occasionally voiced, though not often.

I hope that this information has proved to be enlightening. Suggestions, comments, and/or corrections are greatly welcome.
Damian   Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:02 pm GMT
correction: Leytonestone = Leytonstone.

soz David! :-)
Uriel   Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:15 am GMT
Well, that would be the first time I ever heard anyone say Cockney and American sound anything alike....
Guest   Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:24 am GMT
Cockney sounds American.